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Fake CITY OF ASHEVILLE model 1895??
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March 16, 2023 - 1:54 am
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I find this batch of “CITY OF ASHEVILLE” 1895’s very intriguing.  According to Kassab and Dunbar’s 1895 book (pages 328 thru 331), just 25 model 1895’s were shipped to the city of Asheville, North Carolina in 1907.  All 25 were factory engraved with “CITY OF ASHEVILLE” on the stock and are all in the letterable range from the lowest serial number 55320 thru the highest serial number 56052.  The photo of the ledger records on page 331 of the 1895 book shows the ledger entries for the 25 rifles as “S.B. City of Asheville cut in left side of stock.”  The subject gun on Gunbroker is in the 35000 range and dates to 1902.  I’ve asked the seller for the complete serial number multiple times with no response.  Most likely likely a fake, right?  

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/968622048

Don

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March 16, 2023 - 2:12 am
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deerhunter said
  I’ve asked the seller for the complete serial number multiple times with no response.  Most likely likely a fake, right?   

Either a fake, or seller is a born sorry SOB.  For what other reason would he refuse the info you requested?

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March 17, 2023 - 1:02 am
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If the rifle dates to 1902 and the massacre (according to the seller) was in 1906 we either have proof of the remarkable foresight of Asheville’s city fathers or a seller who is somewhat bankrupt in the credibility department.

 

Mike

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March 19, 2023 - 2:00 pm
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Here’s a pair sold at the Julia auction in 2007.  Definitely not the same serial number range:

https://www.collectorebooks.com/jamesauction/winchester/33698.htm

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March 19, 2023 - 2:41 pm
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Here’s a link to a story about the massacre.  An interesting and exciting story.  In the end, five hundred rounds fired at the criminal with over 100 rounds hitting home is quite the event.  

An excerpt that caught my attention:

Harris showed up in Asheville on November 12, 1906. On the morning of the 13th, he spent $35 buying nice clothes, a Savage .303 rifle, and a jug of bourbon

Here’s the link to the story:

https://ashevilleterrors.com/the-1906-massacre-and-barleys-taproom/

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March 19, 2023 - 3:43 pm
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Steve,

Thanks for the Link to the Story.

I found it interesting.Smile

Anthony

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March 19, 2023 - 4:43 pm
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steve004 said
Here’s the link to the story:

https://ashevilleterrors.com/the-1906-massacre-and-barleys-taproom/

But what does this incident have to do with the ’95s purchased by Ashville the following year? 

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March 19, 2023 - 5:36 pm
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Good Point Clarence.

To me it helps to lend information solidifying the Fact that the two Factual incidences are not related and gives credence to time frame of the Asheville Police Dept. order in 1907 and the 1906 massacre so the two facts are brought out into the open for Collectors as to being able to differentiate the two factually!

There’s no way any of the Original 1895’s that we’re shipped in 1907 could be claimed to be used in the 1906 Massacre. JMO!Smile

Anthony

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March 19, 2023 - 6:00 pm
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Anthony Niro said
Good Point Clarence.

To me it helps to lend information solidifying the Fact that the two Factual incidences are not related and gives credence to time frame of the Asheville Police Dept. order in 1907 and the 1906 massacre so the two facts are brought out into the open for Collectors as to being able to differentiate the two factually!

There’s no way any of the Original 1895’s that we’re shipped in 1907 could be claimed to be used in the 1906 Massacre. JMO!Smile

Anthony

  

Supposedly, these rifles were ordered in response to the massacre – which would make the 1907 ship date logical.  The story doesn’t completely hang together given they managed to fling 500 bullets at the criminal with more than 100 hitting him.  However, it seems much of this came from civilians (and guns sitting in a pawn shop were used), so maybe the local government figured they needed to have an adequate amount of city owned weapons on hand? 

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March 19, 2023 - 6:50 pm
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This reminds me of the Winchesters M1886’s that Arapahoe County ordered in 1984.  There were 50 rifles shipped –  engraved Arapahoe County on the receiver.   They were all in .40-82 with 26 inch round barrels and full magazines.  These are documented in the Winchester ledger.

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March 19, 2023 - 7:22 pm
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steve004 said Supposedly, these rifles were ordered in response to the massacre – which would make the 1907 ship date logical.

If so, the logical response would have been to order Savage 99s, a more modern rifle than ’95s.  But until city records are found to confirm the story, I don’t believe it.

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March 19, 2023 - 9:59 pm
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clarence said

steve004 said Supposedly, these rifles were ordered in response to the massacre – which would make the 1907 ship date logical.

If so, the logical response would have been to order Savage 99s, a more modern rifle than ’95s.  But until city records are found to confirm the story, I don’t believe it.

  

Maybe they had a bad taste in their mouth for the Savage ’99 – as that was what the desperado used on them Wink

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March 22, 2023 - 12:05 pm
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There’s an article about the rifles in the Fall 2017 Winchester Collector.  It can also be read in the online version if you are a WACA member.  It might answer some of the questions posted in this thread.

Regards

Brad Dunbar

http://1895book.com/

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March 22, 2023 - 3:22 pm
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Brad Dunbar said
There’s an article about the rifles in the Fall 2017 Winchester Collector.  It can also be read in the online version if you are a WACA member.  It might answer some of the questions posted in this thread.

  

I had the vague memory of something – I’ll go look at it.  Thanks for the tip!

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