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Fair price for 92 with DL # engraved on recv
August 9, 2019
4:22 pm
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I am considering buying a 25-20 1892, serial places it in the early 1920’s.  5% blue remaining, seller says bore is good with two small areas of pitting.  The saddle ring is intact. No rust.  Barrel appears to be 24”. Not a takedown.

I don’t see a method of uploading photos on this mobile site, as I don’t have a photo hosting website.  

I am trying to determine a fair price for a gun like this which has the eyesore hand graving on the receiver, even as a shooter. 

August 10, 2019
12:16 am
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Frankly, knowing that it had once belonged to such a flagrant IDIOT, I just couldn't bear to have it in my possession.  ONLY if it can be bought cheaply enough to be able to afford an absolutely top-notch refinish, would I consider it.  (And factor in not only the high cost of such work, but also the aggravation of finding someone to do it, shipping, etc.)

I don't support back-ground checks for gun buyers, but I DO support IQ tests...in the hope of weeding out the idiots who'd commit this kind of vandalism.

August 10, 2019
12:36 am
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I checked with a reputable gunsmith who frequently services lever guns, and he said that there isn’t a practical way to hide the damage.  So as a wall hanger with the right side out, and a shooter, is it worth $400?  $450?  I would like to rescue it but don’t want to overpay.

August 10, 2019
2:30 am
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Can a reputable engraver "hide" the damage?  Also, question: did the 24" 1892s have saddle rings?

August 10, 2019
3:46 am
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ds91304@aol.com said 
 So as a wall hanger with the right side out, and a shooter, is it worth $400?  $450?

Not to evade your question, but that's really a value judgment only you can make.  I don't find honest wear, even hard wear, offensive, & most of my own guns show it.  But stupid abuse is, to me, something quite different--buying such a gun would almost make me feel that I was "accepting" what the previous owner had done.  Personally, I think that $400 would be better spent on a gun that doesn't make you cringe every time you look at it.

August 10, 2019
12:51 pm
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eastbank
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at the right price and if the bore was good, I would buy it as a shooter.  i have a 40,s made md 64 in very good condition(90%) with a DL number lightly engraved on the lower tang that I bought for 375.00 about 10-12 years ago and I have never regretted it.

August 10, 2019
3:57 pm
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It depends on the condition of the rest of the gun.  There are guys who buy guns like this to part out.  If the wood is good, that's a big deal.  $400 for a functional junker is probably about right.  Hard to say for sure without seeing it.

August 10, 2019
5:01 pm
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The description "on the receiver" leaves room for a variety of areas. Moreover, the size and depth seem factors too. Considering the small amount of original finish, 'perhaps' the markings could be removed with some careful home tools remedies. I'd not condemn it rotely without more facts. It sounds like a potentially good shooter. Were I to have sufficient skills/tools/time, I'd take pride in such small 'restoration', or 'salvage' depending on personal outlook and the resulting product.
I've bought and still have some few guns with markings. Acquired "at a price", and appreciated for what they are. Also, I consider the "Bubba" matter in context. Some markings simply practical based on era and circumstances. Does 'causation' factor make them any more/less desirable? Likely not, but not quickly to condemn former owner(s).
Just my take
John
Postscript: If the new poster eastbank above is the same friend from Gunboards, highly recommend him as knowledgeable, professional and great contributor. An asset to any gun forum! - Definitely my take!

August 10, 2019
5:28 pm
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Thanks everyone.

August 10, 2019
5:42 pm
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iskra said
Some markings simply practical based on era and circumstances. Does 'causation' factor make them any more/less desirable? Likely not, but not quickly to condemn former owner(s). 
  

Jeez, hope you don't belong to the Idiot's Defense League!  What are the circumstances that would make it "practical" to engrave a DL or SS number on a gun?  If the reason for doing so has to do with recovery after theft (which rarely happens anyway), doesn't the gun have its own factory ser. no. to serve that purpose?  

August 10, 2019
5:49 pm
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Back in the 60's & 70's the police recommended you etch your DL# or SS# in everything valuable

Bob

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August 10, 2019
7:06 pm
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eastbank
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in the old days there was no data base of stolen fire arms like there is today and many firearm owners had those numbers engraved to id them as the owner and DL-SS numbers were easy to trace. even to day I know of friends who don,t have the serial numbers of their firearms written down(dumb idea). and firearms to some that were just tools to them, and now 75-100 years later are very collectable and worth many times over there original cost.  my own father had several firearms on the farm I grew up on and they were tools, like a hoe-rake-spade and he didn,t even clean them very often. I used to take oil off the dipstick of the family car to put a coat of oil  on them and didn,t see a cleaning rod until  I was 9-10 years old.

August 10, 2019
8:03 pm
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1873man said
Back in the 60's & 70's the police recommended you etch your DL# or SS# in everything valuable

Bob  

"Everything valuable" doesn't necessarily have a permanent ser. no.; if it does, what's the point?  As for police advice, aren't cops also the ones who assert that mere untrained civilians should NEVER attempt to defend themselves?  "Call the police if you're in danger, that's what we're here for," is the official policy of all police agencies.

Furthermore, how stupid would a thief or a fence have to be not to grind off such a number ASAP?  Grinding off a factory ser. no. (much harder to do than a lightly etched marking) immediately indicates theft or criminal use, whereas the marks left by grinding or filing elsewhere on the gun wouldn't have any clear meaning.

August 11, 2019
2:27 am
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Back then people didn't think twice about. I saw tv sets and stereos with SS# on them. The police said it was faster to locate the owner of stolen property. When I was in grad school we one of the first in out area to get a color TV and it got stolen and that is what the police told us to do. We had guns in the house mostly hunting ones but we knew enough not to do it to them. Those we hide in the cow yard under the pile of

Bob

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August 11, 2019
3:14 am
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1873man said
Back then people didn't think twice about. I saw tv sets and stereos with SS# on them.

"Back then" is something I remember very well, being born during WWII.  But the idea of needlessly defacing a gun was not something I remember being a common thing for intelligent folks to do even in those "ancient" times.

Yes, I've seen such NON-serialized items (including a speed-mike I bought at a gun show) marked in this way, which does no harm since most of them have a very limited service-life before they break down or wear out, but I don't see how that reasoning can be applied to serialized firearms.

August 11, 2019
7:34 am
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I purchased a 92 very similar to the one you describe about 8 years ago. I paid $500 for it, however mine came with a bonus Marbles tang sight. Electric pencils or "engravers" cut very shallow and the offending lettering is easily removed with refinishing in mind. Here is a before and after of the one I redid. (I should say an after and before the way I uploaded the picsEmbarassed)

001.JPGImage Enlarger002.JPGImage Enlarger

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August 11, 2019
10:12 am
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1873man said
Back in the 60's & 70's the police recommended you etch your DL# or SS# in everything valuable

Bob  

Thank you Bob for a clear and non offensive reply as to why the number may have been placed on the rifle.

Michael

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Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

August 11, 2019
10:18 am
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ds91304@aol.com said
I am considering buying a 25-20 1892, serial places it in the early 1920’s.  5% blue remaining, seller says bore is good with two small areas of pitting.  The saddle ring is intact. No rust.  Barrel appears to be 24”. Not a takedown.

I don’t see a method of uploading photos on this mobile site, as I don’t have a photo hosting website.  

I am trying to determine a fair price for a gun like this which has the eyesore hand graving on the receiver, even as a shooter.   

Good morning,

IT is very uncommon for a Model 1892 sporting rifle, with a standard 24 inch barrel, to have a saddle ring on the receiver.  The gun MAY have started out as a saddle ring carbine and then had a non original barrel, magazine, and fore end attached to the receiver.  If this is the case then the rifle has a few more "value" problems than just the DL number on it.   I will be glad to take a look at any photos if you send them to me at 2bitrifles@gmail.com

Michael

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Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

August 11, 2019
5:46 pm
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You surprise me Clarence. One matter to disagree, quite another the seeming vitriolic manner your opinion framed. Counterpoints offered below.
1. To many folks, guns are tools. Simply that, nothing more. Such particularly true in historic context. Also yet particularly prevalent yet today in law enforcement where I enjoyed one career. 2. Tracing guns 'of old', a lengthy and on average about 95% fruitless process. Even where the original owner known to the factory within warranty context, no information about subsequent owners. 3. Based on character of communities where located, crime rates differ dramatically and household burglary ranking a common crime in many locales. Situation where gun may be exposed to theft varying also in terms of transporting in vehicle. 4. Particularly before automated systems, such as pawn shops particular 'hubs' for stolen property and that circumstance having nothing directly to do with integrity of dealers; more a consequence of such business. Identifiers as D/Ls offering a particular point of contact as unique descriptor if duly reported within context of stolen weapon nomenclature. 5. Kindly note that the '68 GCA law particularly addressed ambiguity of mere manufacturer and serial number, typically repeated on a plethora of their models and without further qualifying description, certainly not unique. Winchester, Smith & Wesson, Remington & Colt, once the big four, subject to this very issue as also most other manufacturers. 6. We live in a time and environment where guns have pronounced value from collector perspective. Going back little more than a half century, guns literally a commodity as witnessed by the post WWII era huge number of milsurps 'assaulting' our shores threatening our domestic firearms makers very survival. That era, used sporting rifle genre taking comparable value hits. Placing a unique marking upon a firearm worth some bottles of good whiskey, perhaps not so terrible.
Yet an ultimate irony here, Clarence. The "unique 'owner identifier" placed on a firearm, perhaps the best alternative to "registration" in terms of police opportunity for "recovery" of stolen firearms where the loss report includes such data. Registration, building & enforcing a "chain of title" so to speak, the grand alternative most all of us disdain!
My best to you Clarence and...
Just my take

August 12, 2019
7:44 pm
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I understand why someone would put something like a Dr. Lic. # on a gun, but as a collector I wish it was someplace discreet.  I have a shotgun that the owner told me that he put the number on the gun because he lives so close to the Mexican border they have problems with illegals crossing his ranch.  Lucky for me it is placed where you can hardly see it and when the hand guard is positioned correctly you can't see it at all.  After I bought the gun I was able to track the history by using this Texas license number. 

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