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Extra heavy model 1894
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October 30, 2024 - 8:57 pm
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It seems a WACA member once owned this 1894 but was lost in a bad trade with a fake Colt revolver if I remember correctly.   I believe it is also featured in a WACA magazine.  Now Turnbull has it.  Would like it much better had it not been restored…

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/rifles/winchester-rifles-model-1894-pre-64/winchester-model-1894-s-n-15147-the-world-s-most-interesting-1894-.cfm?gun_id=102872895

Don

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October 30, 2024 - 10:06 pm
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$65,000 is insane (!!!) for anything that’s been restored!!!

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October 30, 2024 - 10:32 pm
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I’m assuming (or perhaps even recall when this rifle has been discussed before) that as a typical part of a Turnbull restoration, is that a new barrel has been put on it?  If that’s true – here we have about the only extra heavy barreled Model 1894 made – which is what made it so very special – and the original barrel is not on the rifle?

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October 31, 2024 - 12:11 am
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 I’m going to guess the barrel, tube, wood, and maybe the butt plate are new. The stamping of the serial number looks fresh so without pictures or documentation of the gun before restoration how do we know it’s not a clone. What parts you can’t find in donor guns you make new. This gun was discussed before, doesn’t appear to have changed. T/R

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October 31, 2024 - 1:37 am
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I wonder where the original heavy barrel is? I wouldn’t mind owning just the barrel.

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October 31, 2024 - 2:01 am
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steve004 said
I wonder where the original heavy barrel is? I wouldn’t mind owning just the barrel.

  

Good point, Steve. In most cases I would think the barrel maker would want to keep it for reference but in this case he’ll likely never need it.

 

Mike

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October 31, 2024 - 2:13 am
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At some time in the past, Russ Day owned it.

Instead of speculating what is or is not original on that rifle, Turnbull will provide that information if asked.

Bert

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October 31, 2024 - 2:35 am
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steve004 said
I wonder where the original heavy barrel is? I wouldn’t mind owning just the barrel.

  

What happens to a extra heavy barrel in the day is they get cut short since the gun was too heavy to use.

Bob

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October 31, 2024 - 12:52 pm
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When Russ Day wrote the article in the WACA magazine, a members name and number was listed. When Turbull replaces a barrel they send you the old barrel, loading tube, and any other parts that we’re replaced. I think that’s they’re policy.

Crazy $$$ how much that price tag is on a non original gun. IMO!

Anyone can take an old Winchester, and have it made into something unheard of, claiming, “a one of a kind”, rarity!

 

Antonio

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October 31, 2024 - 1:06 pm
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Well, there’s no denying it’s interesting.

 

 

Mike

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October 31, 2024 - 1:52 pm
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Ya, that was My gun  and I’m the “dope” ,as Clarence put it, who got shafted by Mr. James Neikirk . I bought the gun from Russ Day in 2019. Sure do wish I had it back. Oh ya’ I gave Russ app. $22,000.00 for it. Restored or not , it’s the only one.

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October 31, 2024 - 2:17 pm
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The part I don’t reconcile in my brain. Is if the gun with all these features, as matched with the factory letter, were in 100% original factory condition and not restored. Would it then be worth the $65,000.00 at that point? Hypothetically speaking?

Maverick

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October 31, 2024 - 4:01 pm
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Maverick said
The part I don’t reconcile in my brain. Is if the gun with all these features, as matched with the factory letter, were in 100% original factory condition and not restored. Would it then be worth the $65,000.00 at that point? Hypothetically speaking?

Maverick

  

 Depends who is selling it and to whom. RIA and it’s buyers would start at 65k.

 Hypothetically speaking if it had a sawed off barrel, the ears on the butt plate cut off and no condition, It would be period user friendly but today not very valuable. By restoring a gun like described today with documentation I don’t see 65k, but someone else might.

 Cloned collector cars do not sell for the same price as restored, I would expect guns to be similar or worse, maybe the cost of construction.  T/R

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October 31, 2024 - 6:41 pm
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Maverick said
The part I don’t reconcile in my brain. Is if the gun with all these features, as matched with the factory letter, were in 100% original factory condition and not restored. Would it then be worth the $65,000.00 at that point? Hypothetically speaking?

Maverick

  

In today’s market, quite possibly. I’ll need to read the above referenced Collector article while I ponder it. That might also help me make sense of today’s asking price. 

 

Mike

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October 31, 2024 - 7:11 pm
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It is none of my business what Henry sold it for but if looking at merely the rate of inflation on the purchase price. In today’s money the difference in 2019 monies of $22,000.00 is only $27,557.77 in 2024.

Of course other factors come into play other than just inflation!

Sincerely,

Maverick

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October 31, 2024 - 7:46 pm
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I gave mr. Neikirk $80,000.00 and the Winchester for the Colt, I so far have ended up with a $3000.00 fake, so a very expensive mistake, trusting someone I didn’t know was a fraud.

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October 31, 2024 - 8:00 pm
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Henry Mero said
I gave mr. Neikirk $80,000.00 and the Winchester for the Colt, I so far have ended up with a $3000.00 fake, so a very expensive mistake, trusting someone I didn’t know was a fraud.

Henry,

This isn’t meant to rub it in or degrade you, but I think you typed in an extra zero.  On a very good day, your trade might be worth $300.

No ill will, but just so you aren’t disappointed.

If I were you, I would hire a lawyer for deception and FRAUD.

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October 31, 2024 - 9:53 pm
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1873man said

steve004 said

I wonder where the original heavy barrel is? I wouldn’t mind owning just the barrel.

  

What happens to a extra heavy barrel in the day is they get cut short since the gun was too heavy to use.

Bob

  

I re-read the article – hadn’t read it in a while.  It’s in the Fall, 2017 magazine for anyone interested.  From the way I read the article, it mentions that Turnbull restored the wood and metal finishes.  No mention of any other alterations.  I take this to mean that all parts on the rifle are completely original and the only alterations are the finishes.  Do I have this right?  

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October 31, 2024 - 11:33 pm
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Looking at the gun and especially the muzzle, the gun would of had to be in very good condition before the restore to still have a mint bore. You can see perfect lands and groves at the muzzle unless its been relined.

Bob

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November 1, 2024 - 2:21 am
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steve004 said From the way I read the article, it mentions that Turnbull restored the wood and metal finishes.  No mention of any other alterations.  I take this to mean that all parts on the rifle are completely original and the only alterations are the finishes.  Do I have this right?  

Omission of details or aspects about the restoration, is NOT or should be taken as a confirmation of something. I’d consider this line of thinking as your own confirmation bias. Like Bert said, the only way to know for certain what was done to the rifle, is to ask Doug Turnbull. Which he would likely gladly tell you if you ask, as it is a selling point for his restoration services. Like others on the forum I believe a good portion of the rifle to likely have been recreated as needed by them. For example looking at the Swiss butt, I think it is likely a completely recast piece and not original. But you’d have to take it off the stock to determine that.

Sincerely,

Maverick

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