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clarence said
A brilliant invention that can’t be mass-produced profitably benefits no one, making Mason’s role nearly as important as JB’s, I would say. Not unlike the role played by Horace Smith, the older, more experienced gunmaker, in his partnership with Dan Wesson while working on the design of the Volcanic; though in this case the fact that the two partners were also close friends facilitated cooperation.
Agreed, although without knowing the nature and extent of what Mason actually did to Browning’s prototype, it is difficult to say he was the sine qua non of the success of the 1886.
If what Mason did was modify parts to facilitate mass production, without improving the functionality or effectiveness of the mechanism, I could argue there were, in 1885, other WRA employees (e.g. Luke Wheelock, Nelson King, George Briggs, and Bennett himself, who was an engineer graduate of Yale’s Sheffield Scientic School) capable of getting the 86 into production. As evidence, I would cite the production and sales records of the 1866 and 1873.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
Zebulon said
That being the case, if we conclude the models in the Cody display are sui generis from Browning’s own hands, I do have to question Bennett’s assertion to dealers that the 1886 was more largely to William Mason’s credit.
I think Bennett’s intentions were to rally his troops sort of speak after the falling out between the two companies and to reference the company’s strive to make quality products. Does Bennett hold some bias towards his own employees, likely so. But Bennett would have known all to well what Browning contributed to Winchester. 10 Winchester Models were the results of Browning’s initial genius, the 1885, 1886, 1887, 1890, 1892, 1893, 1894, 1895, 1897 and 1900. Bennett truly did make a huge mistake by not taking on Browning’s automatic shotgun, even it it meant changing the status quo of the respective companies previous 19 years of working relationship.
Also, I don’t think Bennett was at all wrong about William Mason’s capabilities and role with the company’s production of firearms. When you look at the two men, Mason had 125 inventions to his name verses 128 inventions to Browning’s, both geniuses in their own right. I wonder how strained the Browning Winchester relationship truly was, years later Browning was heavily involved with Winchester’s BAR government contract during WWI.
Zebulon said
If I were a younger man and lived closer to Cody, I would ask the museum for permission to study the 1886 design and production files for plans, change orders, design notes, and so forth; and review Mason’s patent applications and letters patent issued. But the shadows have grown too long. It’s moot anyway, I suppose.
I don’t think its a moot point. No time like the present. Colonel Sanders didn’t get started until he was 65!
You could do like Dan Shuey did, up and relocate to Cody. He loved it, said the cost of living and taxes were much better than Illinois.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
When I was Cody last month it was hotter than Hell’s front porch. For a Texan to say this, you want to know it was sidewalk egg-frying time. And I have no illusions about Wyoming Winters.
Lastly, I’m advised by Higher Authority I’d be sleeping by myself.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
Also, I don’t think Bennett was at all wrong about William Mason’s capabilities and role with the company’s production of firearms. When you look at the two men, Mason had 125 inventions to his name verses 128 inventions to Browning’s, both geniuses in their own right. Maverick said
Andrew Burgess held 599. Quantity isn’t everything of course, but had he teamed permanently with Winchester, instead of dissipating his talent in so many diverse directions, who knows what the results might have been.
Zebulon said
Lastly, I’m advised by Higher Authority I’d be sleeping by myself.
That is truly the only consideration with any authority! 
I would already have purchased a summer cottage in the Cody area if I did not have the exact same dilemma as you do.
I do wonder why you thought that it was hot though… 90+ degrees in Cody is a walk in the park compared to the same temperature in Lake Jackson TX (where my daughter and her family live). I will only visit her in the winter months!!
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert, I grew up in a Southeastern suburb of Houston, right on the Ship Channel. (When Amoco Virginia blew in 1959, the blast wave imploded some upper windows in my high school gym.) Yes, it is sticky and miserable in Summer, although the temperatures rarely get above the low nineties. The good news is you can dress for it and be comfortable in the shade with nothing but a fan because the air is so wet. We didn’t get a/c until 1954. For us there was actually a mild onshore/offshore breeze, morning and night.
Although North Central Texas is only about 600 ‘ MSL, the humidity is lower and the daytime Summer temps much more extreme. In August, shaded air can reach 100F or more, from which there is no relief. It can kill you and did kill my old tough-as-nails shooting partner, who stubbornly walked 700 miles a year, every day, rain or shine.
Cody seemed more like Oklahoma City than anything else. I couldn’t push enough water.
Dress for Lake Jackson like the lawyers do in the Rio Grande Valley: formal attire is an open-collared Guayabera over light, knife-edged cotton trousers, finished with either very expensive alligator slip-ons or top shelf boots. And a straw Stetson or Panama. These days down there in the Valley, consider adding an EDC to your apparel. A nickel plated 1911 with carved, ruby-eyed skull grips of ivory or gold washed pewter, is never out of fashion.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
clarence said
Also, I don’t think Bennett was at all wrong about William Mason’s capabilities and role with the company’s production of firearms. When you look at the two men, Mason had 125 inventions to his name verses 128 inventions to Browning’s, both geniuses in their own right. Maverick said
Andrew Burgess held 599. Quantity isn’t everything of course, but had he teamed permanently with Winchester, instead of dissipating his talent in so many diverse directions, who knows what the results might have been.
Agreed. Burgess was an unsung genius. Of course, creative people of all sorts are apt to be ego-driven, jealous, and vain in direct proportion to their level of ability. There was likely not so much difference in that respect between Margot Fonteyn, ultimate principal dancer of the Royal Ballet, and Benjamin Tyler Henry.
From everything I’ve read, JMB was not unaware of his gifts, although they were so great he was fairly immune from jealousy. I don’t think he suffered fools readily; his half-brother Matthew was even less so inclined. Perhaps we underestimate the value of Matt’s business sense. He was something of a lightning rod and may well have enabled JMB to focus without distraction. Not a small thing.
William Mason was described by Houze as modest and unassuming, which may have been the case. If so, that is likely why it is difficult to rate his achievements. Still, a cursory review of his letters patent – not in number but rather in significance – might tell us something.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
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