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November 5, 2014
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At the risk of being provocative, I would love to know what Pauline Muerrle thinks of this Model 70 Winchester. Would be glad to pay for a “consultation” if she can shed any light. In any event it might amuse the frequenters of this forum.
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
It’s always difficult to be certain by only looking at photos, but…
I’d wager a lot that the engraving and checkering on this rifle is not Winchester factory work. The engraving pattern is much different in several respects from what came out of Winchester. The gold inlaid sheep does not closely resemble the sort of figures the Winchester engravers produced. The stock checkering is far from anything the factory ever turned out.
Sorry to bear bad news but that is my assessment, for what it’s worth.
For every genuine, factory original engraved M70 there are quite a few that are not original. Some (like yours) are very pretty rifles but unfortunately were not engraved at the factory.
November 5, 2014
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Not to worry…. I figured these pictures would be at least of passing interest to some forum readers. My interests in Model 70 Winchesters tend more to the production configurations and pre-war varieties. Engraved Model 70s are too rare and too hard to document for my taste.
That said, I’ve no intention of selling this gun, whatever its origin or value. I’ve been working my way through the collection taking pictures of the guns for record keeping purposes, which is why they are in the format I posted.
Cheers…
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
November 5, 2014
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Thanks for the feedback. I believe I know a fair amount about Model 70 Winchesters but I’m certain I know nothing about engraving!!! The only proven authentic factory engraved Model 70 I’ve ever seen is in the Cody museum (and of course behind glass)…
But if I can ask a couple of questions for educational purposes…
In the case of the few Model 70 Winchesters that were engraved by the factory at the time of production, i.e. not sent back later for embellishment or custom engraved, were they engraved while in the white? I’m presuming that the barrel and action were already together, not engraved separately and then assembled? In which case the proof marks would have been present when the rifle was engraved?
I’m also assuming (see I really know nothing about how one engraves a firearm) that the parts have to be polished (carefully) after engraving to remove any surface roughness created by the engravers tools, after which the parts need to be blued/reblued?
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
November 5, 2014
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Update on my efforts to debunk this rifle. Pauline Muerrle graciously took a look at the photos for me. So here’s the story:
The engraving is John Kusmit. The stock carving, however, was not done by anyone at the factory (as vicvanb noted above). Given those two things, the most likely speculation is that Mr. Kusmit engraved the gun as an outside job.
So factory engraver… Yes. Factory engraved… Probably not. Unfortunately cannot be proven one way or the other since except for Nick Kusmit (who kept a personal log of the guns he engraved) there aren’t any available records that predate the creation of the Custom Shop in 1959. Factory carved… Certainly not.
But the stock is interesting because except for the carving/checkering, it really looks like a regular Winchester factory Super Grade stock. Same dimensions, same ebonite (plastic) forend tip, rubber grip cap, steel butt plate, oval cheekpiece, etc. By coincidence, I happen to own S/N 127937 (just 2 away from this gun), which is a .22 Hornet Super Grade in completely factory configuration. Excepting the checkering, the two stocks are the same. So (speculating) it’s possible that the stock on this rifle was obtained from the factory without checkering and then checkered/carved outside the factory walls. It’s at least plausible, since Model 70 stocks got their first two finish coats before they were checkered.
Ms. Muerrle has agreed to provide me with a letter recording her conclusions about the metal and wood on this rifle. My thanks to her!!! While I do not anticipate selling this gun in my lifetime, I suppose it will be sold some day (unless I live forever – which is highly doubtful) and I want to keep the record straight.
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
November 5, 2014
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I realize that I’m just posting to myself here, but I wanted to correct my own error above.
I have it on the most knowledgeable authority that ALL of the Winchester factory engravers kept records while working at the shop and that copies of both John and Nick Kusmit’s logs exist, along with those of all subsequent factory engravers. It’s just that Nick Kusmit’s logs are more detailed and complete than John’s. Some factory ledgers predating the Custom Shop are also available.
So I stand corrected. Thank you!!! There IS hope for anyone out there trying to track down a late 1940’s to 1950’s engraved Winchester firearm. Something I thought was hopeless unless Nick Kusmit was the engraver…
Anyone researching a gun should contact Pauline Muerrle (WACA Life Member) via her website: paulinemuerrle.com
Best…
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
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