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Educate me on this M70
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July 2, 2022 - 8:31 pm
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There’s an interesting Model 70 on GB:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/937168789

Looking at picture #21, does the rear receiver bridge look different? Amazing that it’s not drilled and tapped, but it looks short? It has a stripper clip slot but serial number in 86xxx range? Has the rear bridge been modified?

Also, the description says that this is a M70 with a Winchester 54 barrel – any take on this? I’ve never heard of this either.

Overall looks like it is in great condition.

Any insights on this listing appreciated!

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July 2, 2022 - 9:29 pm
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A Type1 H&H Receiver and non-original barrel?

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July 2, 2022 - 10:35 pm
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Even if it’s all original, I think the price is already at “the limit” for an ’06.

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July 2, 2022 - 11:15 pm
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The M70’s on pre64win.com go for a lot higher (about 2x this amount)…overpriced?

Also per pre64win.com, Winchester stopped installing stripper clip slots starting with transitional receivers, serial number 66350. 

https://pre64win.com/blogs/welcome-to-the-pre64win-com-campfire/know-your-rifles-place-in-model-70-family-part-1-of-2

 

This one is serial 86xxx with a stripper clip slot, so either pre64win.com is wrong, or this one is a modified Frankenstein…!

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July 3, 2022 - 12:40 am
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Looks like there might be a ‘fixed’ hole in the rear bridge.

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July 3, 2022 - 1:36 am
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Tedk said
Looks like there might be a ‘fixed’ hole in the rear bridge.

  

I see the “dimple,” but could it have been welded without refinishing the rcvr?

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July 3, 2022 - 9:14 am
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Seller does note that rear bridge is not d&t.

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July 3, 2022 - 2:35 pm
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Hi Ron-

There is a good chance that rifle is correct, albeit somewhat unusual.

The S/N is stated to be 86XXX (1948).  The receiver is a type II-2, and the odd (but probably OK) thing is that the receiver is one intended for a 30-06 Target rifle (Nat Match, Target, or Bull Gun).  I suspect that since 86XXX was just before the change to the oval tang receiver, Winchester was simply using up cloverleaf tang target receivers on standard rifles.

To clarify…  The type II “transition” receiver that they began using in 1946 had a cloverleaf tang, but smooth bridge with two D&T holes.  The EXCEPTION was that receivers intended for 30-06 Target rifles retained the clip slot and were NOT D&T.  That is what this rifle apparently has.  The presence of the later dogleg safety, making it a type II-2 receiver, is correct for this period.

Below is a photo of the receiver of a type II-2 30-06 target rifle, S/N 87131.  It’s the same as the GB rifle:

Type-II-2-receiver.jpgImage Enlarger

The barrel is marked in style 3B, where the caliber designation is “30 GOV’T’06 –” with the ending hyphen b/c it was applied with a separate roll marking die, not a fixed hand stamp.  That is also correct for this S/N range.  

The slot blank in the rear sight dovetail appears to be the right style, suggesting that the rifle was originally a G7014C (with Lyman 48WJS).  The half block 48WJS on it now is a later (1950) sight as it has Stayset knobs and the coil return spring, when it “should” have a have block Lyman 48WJS with target knobs and external flat return spring.  That’s easy to replace.

It’s true that PRISTINE PRE-WAR M70 standard rifles in 30 GOV’T’06 have been selling for upwards of $2800.00 lately.  This one is a transition rifle and maybe 95% (???) but I’d guess it’s still worth $1800 or more.

Hope this helps… Smile

Lou

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WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters

WACA-Signauture-3.jpg

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July 3, 2022 - 3:01 pm
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This isn’t relevant to the topic other than perceived prices.

We bought a Pre64 Model 70 Featherweight 30-06 from a local gun shop, and we decide to sell it because we had one before and shooting it was brutal. I had no problem selling it for $995 on Guns International and this was a few years ago.

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July 3, 2022 - 3:57 pm
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I just got off the phone with Tedk and thought I’d post one more photo showing the different type II (transition) receivers used on the pre-64 M70 for future reference if anyone is interested.  These are all competition style rifles, two Target models and a Bull Gun.  I set them side-by-side for comparison:

Transition-Target-Receivers.jpgImage Enlarger

The rifle on the left is S/N 64932.  Because it is a 220 SWIFT, it uses the same receiver as the non-competition rifles of the day.  Cloverleaf tang, smooth bridge, with two factory D&T holes.  This is a type II-1 in that it has the “rabbit’s foot” or “clamshell” safety.  This is what you’d normally find on a 1946-48 M70 in a standard (non-H&H Magnum) caliber, including 30-06

The middle rifle is S/N 87131.  This has the receiver that is unique to target rifles in 30-06 (Nat Match, Target and Bull Gun).  Cloverleaf tang, smooth UNDRILLED bridge WITH clip slot.  It’s a type II-2 in that it has the later “dogleg” safety.  This is the receiver that appears to have been used on the 30-06 standard rifle in the OP (S/N 86XXX).

The rifle on the right is S/N 77144.  It is a type II-1 Bull Gun in 300 (H&H) MAGNUM.  Cloverleaf tang, smooth UNDRILLED bridge, with the semi-circular relief cut on top of the bridge to accommodate the longer H&H cartridge.  The same receiver would have been used on all M70s in H&H calibers at the time.  Even after the advent of the oval tang (type III) receiver, the bridge of H&H caliber rifles were not D&T until around 1950.  In fact the 1950-51 Winchester catalog specifically says the bridge of 300 and 375 H&H rifles is not D&T.

Hope this helps… Smile

Lou

WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters

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July 3, 2022 - 4:05 pm
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Louis Luttrell said
Hi Ron-

There is a good chance that rifle is correct, albeit somewhat unusual.

The S/N is stated to be 86XXX (1948).  The receiver is a type II-2, and the odd (but probably OK) thing is that the receiver is one intended for a 30-06 Target rifle (Nat Match, Target, or Bull Gun).  I suspect that since 86XXX was just before the change to the oval tang receiver, Winchester was simply using up cloverleaf tang target receivers on standard rifles.

To clarify…  The type II “transition” receiver that they began using in 1946 had a cloverleaf tang, but smooth bridge with two D&T holes.  The EXCEPTION was that receivers intended for 30-06 Target rifles retained the clip slot and were NOT D&T.  That is what this rifle apparently has.  The presence of the later dogleg safety, making it a type II-2 receiver, is correct for this period.

Below is a photo of the receiver of a type II-2 30-06 target rifle, S/N 87131.  It’s the same as the GB rifle:

Type-II-2-receiver.jpgImage Enlarger

The barrel is marked in style 3B, where the caliber designation is “30 GOV’T’06 –” with the ending hyphen b/c it was applied with a separate roll marking die, not a fixed hand stamp.  That is also correct for this S/N range.  

The slot blank in the rear sight dovetail appears to be the right style, suggesting that the rifle was originally a G7014C (with Lyman 48WJS).  The half block 48WJS on it now is a later (1950) sight as it has Stayset knobs and the coil return spring, when it “should” have a have block Lyman 48WJS with target knobs and external flat return spring.  That’s easy to replace.

It’s true that PRISTINE PRE-WAR M70 standard rifles in 30 GOV’T’06 have been selling for upwards of $2800.00 lately.  This one is a transition rifle and maybe 95% (???) but I’d guess it’s still worth $1800 or more.

Hope this helps… Smile

Lou

  

Amazing insight – looks like this ended up going for just over $1800, just as Lou predicted.

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July 3, 2022 - 5:47 pm
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I never realized that the .300 H & H had those relief cuts until now. My brother and I have Dad’s Pre-64 Model 70 .300 H & H

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