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Custom shop 71
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March 26, 2022 - 11:33 pm
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https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/george-ulrich-factory-engraved-winchester-model-1-4444d4d8ea


Does this gun seem legitimate and having original finishes on wood and metal?  Any guesses as to what a gun like this will sell for?

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March 27, 2022 - 12:15 am
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That’s a beautiful model 71. I’m  not sure if it’s been refinished or not. What I question is the authenticity of the factory letter.  I didn’t think there were any factory documentation for the Model 71.

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March 27, 2022 - 12:47 am
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I agree it is a beautiful rifle.  I like that it is advertised as a, “Model 1871.”  I suppose it would be easy enough to call Jesse and ask if she wrote the letter.

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March 27, 2022 - 1:12 am
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Interesting that the museum letter specifies that it was ordered on 11/12/41 and sent off to packing on 11/22/41.  I guess George Ulrich was indeed a master engraver as that was some mighty speedy engraving. 

I’m sure there’s an explanation.  The serial number was applied in 1936.  Perhaps they just had an engraved Ulrich M71 rifle on hand for five years? 

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March 27, 2022 - 2:10 am
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What is interesting to me about the gun is that knowing it was ordered by Abercrombie & Fitch of New York for Consignment.

The gun looks legit to me, and I’d find it doubtful that both the Cody Letter and Pauline’s letter would have been faked. Not impossible, but that looks like Pauline’s handwriting to me. Neat to see the G7100C catalog code used in the letter.

If whomever wins the auction wants more info on that rifle. They could contact Griffin & Howe and see if they have the original “Order Forms” from the original buyer’s side of things, as Griffin & Howe has A&F’s records.

http://secure.griffinhowe.com/research-main.cfm

If would help to further the ‘Provenance’ of it.

Sincerely,
Maverick

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March 27, 2022 - 3:59 am
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tionesta1 said
That’s a beautiful model 71. I’m  not sure if it’s been refinished or not. What I question is the authenticity of the factory letter.  I didn’t think there were any factory documentation for the Model 71.  

Al – I too am confused as I always understood records for the Model 71 were restricted to the date when the serial number was applied – this assumption is confirmed by the Cody website. Evidently, the Custom Shop has its own records. I had a 71 which also went to Abercombie& Fitch and about 3 years ago I sent them a request for the information which was available – all I have gotten at this time is a reply indicating they are short staffed and further information will be available when staffing is available – I paid a fee but now I do not even know how much it was. I have subsequently sold the 71 so guess it does not matter – if it ever materializes I would forward it to the guy who bought the gun.

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March 27, 2022 - 2:29 pm
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The letter states that the serial number application date was from the factory records.   The details are from the “order sheets” housed in the museum.  I didn’t know such documents were available.  I think getting Jessie to verify the letter is the key to the whole question.

November 22, 1941 was a Saturday.  A receiver serialized in 1936 waited a long time to be used……perhaps it was sent to be engraved and it took that long for an order.

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March 27, 2022 - 2:48 pm
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sb said
The letter states that the serial number application date was from the factory records.   The details are from the “order sheets” housed in the museum.  I didn’t know such documents were available.  I think getting Jessie to verify the letter is the key to the whole question.

November 22, 1941 was a Saturday.  A receiver serialized in 1936 waited a long time to be used……perhaps it was sent to be engraved and it took that long for an order.  

I think getting Jessie to verify the letter is the key to the whole question.  

Good point. It would clear a lot of this up.

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March 27, 2022 - 3:16 pm
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If the gun sold at Reatta Pass for over $40k, I think it’s going to end up being legit.  The letter is addressed to Miss Gangel so I’m thinking it’s real.

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March 27, 2022 - 3:41 pm
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Folks,  I note Bert hasn’t weighed in yet.  It will be MOST interesting what he has to say when he wakes up and gets on line here!  Suggest waiting for him and maybe asking Jessi in the mean while once Monday rolls around.  Tim

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March 28, 2022 - 12:57 pm
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I find the “Use gun #2123” entry interesting. 

 

Mike

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March 28, 2022 - 6:48 pm
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March 28, 2022 - 6:58 pm
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jsgwoodsman said
I believe this is the first place I ever saw it…

 

https://www.onlinehuntingauctions.com/George-Ulrich-Factory-Engraved-Winchester_i43988726  

So it sold in 2020 for just about $45,000.  Then it sold again a couple months ago on auction for $21,000.  And now it’s up for auction again.  Is this all the work of speculators?  It would seem whoever bought it in 2020 took quite a loss.  

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March 28, 2022 - 7:26 pm
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steve004 said

So it sold in 2020 for just about $45,000.  Then it sold again a couple months ago on auction for $21,000.  And now it’s up for auction again.  Is this all the work of speculators?  It would seem whoever bought it in 2020 took quite a loss.    

Steve -it is certainly interesting – in addition to what you note above, on March 7, 2020, the gun sold for $36,000 at the Jim Wilkinson Rifle Ranch Collection auction. I don’t know the exact date in 2020 when it sold for $44,859 but move ahead to January 29, 2022 (2 months ago) and as you stated it sold for $21,000 (plus the BP & fees) – that’s a pretty big loss. I am still hopeful someone will enlighten us regarding records from the Custom Shop. As you see in the letter, “information is taken from the original order sheets housed in this museum”. Each time the gun sold, both the Winchester letter and the hand written letter from Pauline have been part of the documentation. It would be interesting to know where this gun has been for the 78 years from when it was ordered in 1941 and the date of the letter in 2019.

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March 29, 2022 - 4:05 am
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As of today, I do not have a definitive opinion of that rifle. Like most of you, I was unaware of any factory records for the Model 71 beyond the Polishing Room records. A discussion with Jessica Bennett will undoubtedly solve this mystery, and it is possible that Pauline may have a copy of the engraving records for that rifle.

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March 29, 2022 - 4:29 am
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Bert H. said
As of today, I do not have a definitive opinion of that rifle. Like most of you, I was unaware of any factory records for the Model 71 beyond the Polishing Room records. A discussion with Jessica Bennett will undoubtedly solve this mystery, and it is possible that Pauline may have a copy of the engraving records for that rifle.
Bert  

The hand written letter from Pauline indicates the gun is one of the nicest factory engraved Models 71’s she has seen – implying there are others. I have never previously had any indication of a factory engraved 71 – I even went back and carefully read your Collector article on the 71 to see if I had missed something. I remember when I first read your article and saw the “one” known matted barrel 71, I was amazed but I did not think there was anything about a factory engraved specimen. The museum website is clear about only serial number application dates being available for the 71 so where are the records from which Jessie got the information for the letter she wrote. I am a 71 fan and I really like the gun we are talking about. Please keep the Forum informed on any information you may uncover.

I don’t see any proof marks on the gun – or, are they hidden in the engraving and my old eyes cannot find them. Would it not have proof marks because it went thru the Custom Shop?

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March 31, 2022 - 5:18 am
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One thought:  Do custom shop engraved guns have records that regular later production guns don’t have, like the 21 model guns?  That might explain why this gun still has factory letterable records.  Also, I don’t see any proofmarks either, Burt.

If legit, this gun is close to my idea of an ultimate long gun.

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March 31, 2022 - 6:39 am
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JC said
One thought:  Do custom shop engraved guns have records that regular later production guns don’t have, like the 21 model guns?  That might explain why this gun still has factory letterable records.  Also, I don’t see any proofmarks either, Burt.

If legit, this gun is close to my idea of an ultimate long gun.  

If I was going to be bidding on this gun I would certainly be making some inquiries with Jessica Bennett and Pauline Muerrle regarding the documentation. Barrel markings on both sides are correct for an early 71 barrel – but, there is just something about the right side – look at the word “MADE” – it has a very pronounced “A” and a very mellow “E” that you cannot even see all of the letter- maybe just the lighting? If the documentation checks out it may be the best 71 there is. It will be interesting to see how much it sells for.

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April 18, 2022 - 2:07 am
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Circling back to this M71, it sounds like this was the only Model 71 that has a record associated with it. The letter in the auction listing is legit and matches a search I ran on it. It was found in the custom shop records years ago by the CFM staff. I got a call from the individual that bought the rifle and have a chance to go see it someday. That’s the only reason I dug into any further ….. curiosity go the best of me. What a screamer of a rifle …….. very cool.

I’m still perplexed by the fact that it does not have proof marks and it’s also a short tang receiver with a 4-digit serial number? Wondering how that is possible? 

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April 18, 2022 - 4:52 am
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pdog72 said
Circling back to this M71, it sounds like this was the only Model 71 that has a record associated with it. The letter in the auction listing is legit and matches a search I ran on it. It was found in the custom shop records years ago by the CFM staff. I got a call from the individual that bought the rifle and have a chance to go see it someday. That’s the only reason I dug into any further ….. curiosity go the best of me. What a screamer of a rifle …….. very cool.

I’m still perplexed by the fact that it does not have proof marks and it’s also a short tang receiver with a 4-digit serial number? Wondering how that is possible?   

The gun sold for $17,200 plus whatever juice the auction house may have added – substantially less than the gun had sold for on previous occasions.  If right it might be the nicest 71 on the planet and a bargain at the price it sold for. You indicate it is the only 71 with any records. The letter from Pauline states it is “one of the nicest factory engraved 71’s she had ever examined” – to me that implies there are more – but evidently just not documented. Like you I cannot understand the lack of proof marks. I also do not understand why it has a short tang receiver and yet has an early serial number which would have been produced with a long tang receiver. The barrel address on the left side is correct for an early long tang gun but as noted previously there was something about the right side which bothered me – it may just be the light. I will look forward to having you look at the gun some day and report back to us.

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