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Clarence said
Of course, since GB deliberately conceals how long a gun has been listed, to benefit the seller, you only find this out by seeing the same gun at the same price month after month after month.
I don’t think that GB deliberately conceals it. The seller puts a gun up (lists it) for a specific amount of time. Say 14 days. If it does not sell the gun may be re-listed at the same price or different. I don’t think it is GB’s business to keep track of how a gun is presented or how many times. They are just a clearinghouse not a watchdog.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
twobit said
Could somebody in the WACA “office” produce a graph/chart/visual of the age distribution in 5 year increments of all the current members please? And post it in this thread.Thanks
Michael
AG said
Good idea. Be interesting to see. No personal info or names just a graph of ages.
AG
That would be very hard information to obtain, as it is not currently a required field of entry on the membership form! So I doubt anyone at WACA knows how old anyone actually is.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
mrcvs said
I don’t want to point fingers, but this a sort of “what happened???” question…IF those of you in your 70’s, give or take, had gotten a single son (or daughter) interested in antique Winchesters, or, even a nephew or niece, younger neighbor, etc.–and I mean just one single person, the number of antique Winchester collectors would at least be stable.
So, why didn’t this happen years ago?
I’m guessing, in my case, since this is what I seem to have noticed, Junior goes off to college, his father has a few nice Winchesters, but 4 years if brainwashing by a very liberal higher education system causes Junior to lose any interest in firearms.
This is in reference to 20 or 30 years ago…but is far worse now, as detailed in my first post in this particular thread.
Only 4 years of brain washing? Nope. That stuff starts in elementary school and just continues to get worse as the kid gets older.
Shoot low boys. They're riding Shetland Ponies.
mrcvs said
I’m guessing, in my case, since this is what I seem to have noticed, Junior goes off to college, his father has a few nice Winchesters, but 4 years if brainwashing by a very liberal higher education system causes Junior to lose any interest in firearms.
This statement seems to me to be extremely shortsighted, unless the parenting of the individual was subpar. I do not believe that teachers can ordinarily change the values and beliefs of a person much past the age of twelve that has had good parenting. We see evidence of that today in our college students who have somewhat conservative beliefs. That said, college students of the conservative sort do appear to be vastly out numbered by those that associate themselves with democrats…thereby being accomplices to extreme radical values and beliefs that lead the Socialist/Fascist movement we have going on in their party.
James
twobit said
Try reading this thread from the perspective of a 30 year old and you would come away with a feeling that these “old farts” only bad mouth us so why would I want to join the hobby??
Skeptical that anyone of any age acquires their interest in “old guns” through an internet forum, though such a discussion forum may sharpen & develop their interest. Where does that interest originate? Best answer I can give is LIFE, which includes home influences, friends, movies, reading, etc.
Also, though I see that “hobby” is frequently applied to this fascination with old guns, or new guns for that matter, I find the term inapt, & off-putting, because it relegates guns to the same list of hobbies that includes stamp & coin collecting (both of which I took up as a kid), wood working & carving, knitting, gardening, amateur painting, countless different kinds of craft work, & so on. Love of guns & the history they represent doesn’t belong in that list–it’s something much deeper in the personality of all the gun-lovers I’ve known; it’s a life-style that for me began with a BB-gun in elementary school.
if there is a thousand dollar Winchester, a four thousand dollar Winchester, and a brand new fifteen hundred dollar black gun at a gun store and the owner is trying to make a sale- the winner seems to be the black gun. It’s ok that the owner is in business to make money, it’s ok if the guy is happy with his purchase, and it’s great that at least these younger kids are buying firearms- it may not be the ones I want to buy- but their vote and support are important.
clarence said
Skeptical that anyone of any age acquires their interest in “old guns” through an internet forum, though such a discussion forum may sharpen & develop their interest. Where does that interest originate? Best answer I can give is LIFE, which includes home influences, friends, movies, reading, etc.
Also, though I see that “hobby” is frequently applied to this fascination with old guns, or new guns for that matter, I find the term inapt, & off-putting, because it relegates guns to the same list of hobbies that includes stamp & coin collecting (both of which I took up as a kid), wood working & carving, knitting, gardening, amateur painting, countless different kinds of craft work, & so on. Love of guns & the history they represent doesn’t belong in that list–it’s something much deeper in the personality of all the gun-lovers I’ve known; it’s a life-style that for me began with a BB-gun in elementary school.
Clarence – very thought provoking. I’d have to agree that this is true of me. My antique and vintage firearms interest runs very deep in me and began before I set foot in elementary school. As I reflect on what you stated, I would say it runs deep into my personality and has been a huge part of my life-style – throughout my entire life. I don’t have other hobbies. I just can’t find anything that compares to this much less serve as a substitute. I love talking with fellow collectors. When I’m talking to people who aren’t interested in this subject, I generally find whatever we are talking about is not very interesting.
Bill Hanzel said
if there is a thousand dollar Winchester, a four thousand dollar Winchester, and a brand new fifteen hundred dollar black gun at a gun store and the owner is trying to make a sale- the winner seems to be the black gun. It’s ok that the owner is in business to make money, it’s ok if the guy is happy with his purchase, and it’s great that at least these younger kids are buying firearms- it may not be the ones I want to buy- but their vote and support are important.
Amen!
James
jwm94 said
mrcvs said
I’m guessing, in my case, since this is what I seem to have noticed, Junior goes off to college, his father has a few nice Winchesters, but 4 years if brainwashing by a very liberal higher education system causes Junior to lose any interest in firearms.
This statement seems to me to be extremely shortsighted, unless the parenting of the individual was subpar. I do not believe that teachers can ordinarily change the values and beliefs of a person much past the age of twelve that has had good parenting. We see evidence of that today in our college students who have somewhat conservative beliefs. That said, college students of the conservative sort do appear to be vastly out numbered by those that associate themselves with democrats…thereby being accomplices to extreme radical values and beliefs that lead the Socialist/Fascist movement we have going on in their party.
James
I totally agree James!! Quit blaming the schools for everything when the parents don’t do their part. My two daughters hunt fish and shoot and are 27 and 31. Somehow they were not “brainwashed” because they were taught at home and in the field.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
jwm94 said
Amen!
James
I’d have to agree as well. It’s just that I have nothing in common with these black gun buyers. They have no appreciation of the history and the ambiance of an old lever rifle -particularly the character and personality that only aged wood and steel can provide. I think this is why while most of us appreciate a super-high condition Winchester, there’s an element lacking. No signs of use means no character and no history. And that’s what I see when I look at a black rifle – no character and no history.
It’s not that I don’t know anything about black rifles. I can hold up my end of a conversation about them. They sure don’t interest me though. And most of the black rifle enthusiasts aren’t interested in the old stuff. At the range, they seem to look at what I am shooting with disdain. But then again, maybe they’re looking at me 
steve004 said
I’d have to agree as well. It’s just that I have nothing in common with these black gun buyers. They have no appreciation of the history and the ambiance of an old lever rifle -particularly the character and personality that only aged wood and steel can provide. I think this is why while most of us appreciate a super-high condition Winchester, there’s an element lacking. No signs of use means no character and no history. And that’s what I see when I look at a black rifle – no character and no history.
It’s not that I don’t know anything about black rifles. I can hold up my end of a conversation about them. They sure don’t interest me though. And most of the black rifle enthusiasts aren’t interested in the old stuff. At the range, they seem to look at what I am shooting with disdain. But then again, maybe they’re looking at me
I don’t have an interest in black rifles either, but that is certainly not to say that younger folks do not like old Winchesters, because many of them do, very much so…still, they are mostly into the black ones. As for high conditioned old Winchesters, they are very difficult to come by…especially when they start to stretch budgets. Building a collection up to having a lot, or quite a few, high condition pieces would ordinarily require me, or one of my friends and associates whose means are similar to mine, to run through LOTS of old guns with character. While trading up cash and old guns with LOTS of character to vastly improve our collections with more high conditioned pieces, since condition plays a huge part in collecting…we, or at least I, have kept more than a few of the old ones with character. For those individuals who, for whatever reason, do not like new-like old guns…I’m good with that, and I do not attempt to slight such an issue in any manner or form, (not saying that such is your aim here, either).
James
twobit said
I totally agree James!! Quit blaming the schools for everything when the parents don’t do their part. My two daughters hunt fish and shoot and are 27 and 31. Somehow they were not “brainwashed” because they were taught at home and in the field.
Michael
It is very heartening to know that your two, quite young daughters, hunt, fish and shoot, Michael. They will likely do their own children the same great favor where training and family fun is concerned.
James
Old Logger said
I distinctly remember a ton of crazy liberal ideas my teachers were bloviating about when I was a youngster. It started in grade school. And I grew up in an extremely rural area full of loggers and cedar mill workers. Right on the edge of the Rez. I started 1st grade in 1959.
That fits with my view of families in Alaska, Old Logger, where there is the extreme far left atypical animal and the level headed, common sense kind of human beings with the moderate and conservative bent.
James
jwm94 said
That fits with my view of families in Alaska, Old Logger, where there is the extreme far left atypical animal and the level headed, common sense kind of the conservative bent.
James
I have only been in Alaska 40 years. Grew up on the Olympic Peninsula in the PNW.
Shoot low boys. They're riding Shetland Ponies.
Old Logger said
So what are you doing about it? Have you ever taken your kids or grandkids to a gun show? (hopefully a small one at first so they don’t get bored) How about a Cowboy Action Shoot, or a S.A.S.S? Have you taken them trap or skeet shooting? Did you get them in a firearms safety course? Hunter education course? Take them to the range? Bird hunting? Small game? What about the neighbor kids?
ALL THE ABOVE………… my 2 sons have done ALL of the gun stuff. They stand to inherit close to 300 guns between them. Some shooters, one or 2 “black” guns, the balance are wood and steel collectibles.
Do they have my passion?? Not to the same degree as me. Do they like my guns? Absolutely! Are there more DISTRACTIONS these days? Yes, video games, sports, travel, etc.
I can only hope that they appreciate what they will be receiving, and hope they never have to turn them into cash. I look at it as part of my father’s legacy. Passed to me and substantially improved. I’m 65 now, still buying mostly. Rarely do I sell.
As I read all these posts, and reflect, I realize that I collect old “railroad” pocket watches and handmade knives as well. Some of my friends collect vintage cars. The common denominator?????? Most of these items aren’t made anymore. The “quality of work” isn’t the same as it used to be! Many guns, watches, etc. are not made anymore because they can’t invest the same quality today and remain competitive in today’s market……… price-wise.
Okay, perhaps I was shortsighted to say that the brainwashing begins at college. You are correct–it begins Day 1 of kindergarten by the radical left that permeates the educational system. But, at least while under the roof of the parents, the brainwashing can be countered by solid values instilled by the parents, provided they own antique Winchesters and are not flower children of the ’60’s themselves.
The huge problem when Junior goes off to college, he is bombarded with radical ideas in class, and those living in his dorm embrace such beliefs as well. It’s total immersion 24/7. Sometimes it’s hard to resist that when Junior’s friends and their parents embrace these beliefs and he is the lone hold out until he, too, gives in…
This discussion has me thinking about when I became interested in guns and shooting and it probably began in Kindegarten when a kid we named “Tex” came to school every day wearing a western outfit and two cap guns in holsters on his hip. Imagine that happening in a grade school today! I got my Daisy Red Rider BB gun for Christmas at age 10 or 11 and along with other kids in the neighbourhood ran around with our guns pretending to be The Lone Ranger etc. Most of the dads were war vets and thought nothing of us kids roaming the nearby woods with our guns. A friend of mine bought a war surplus Lee-Enfield complete with bayonet attached and took it home on the city bus with no case. The only comment he got was from a war vet who told him “You got a nice gun here kid.” My father had a very strong interest in history as well and I became interested in that subject at a very early age thanks to him so it was easy to combine the two interests that have endured to the present day. I think that kids today need less “helicopter” parenting and an early exposure to firearms and their safe use and be taught not to fear them but to respect them. My son and my grandson learned to shoot at a young age.
We had an ‘Advanced P.E.’ class when I was in high school (1971) We took field trips to go Steelhead and Salmon fishing along with mock deer hunts and trips to the range with .22’s. It kind of countered some of the other bs that was going on at the time. I remember teachers encouraging students to participate in ‘sit ins’ for popular left wing causes.
Shoot low boys. They're riding Shetland Ponies.
November 7, 2015
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Bill Hanzel said
if there is a thousand dollar Winchester, a four thousand dollar Winchester, and a brand new fifteen hundred dollar black gun at a gun store and the owner is trying to make a sale- the winner seems to be the black gun. It’s ok that the owner is in business to make money, it’s ok if the guy is happy with his purchase, and it’s great that at least these younger kids are buying firearms- it may not be the ones I want to buy- but their vote and support are important.
Very thoughtful (and thought-provoking) post, Bill. Quite honestly a four thousand dollar Winchester may not be a good idea for most gun shops to carry in inventory unless the shop has clients interested in such. My main concern is that a brick and mortar store like the one in your example stays in business. I can’t imagine a gun store staying in business today without selling black guns. Will not confirm or deny if any reside in my safe but I can assure you I’ve never headed to the gun store excited about looking at some black guns.
It amuses and sometimes frustrates me to overhear someone in a gun shop that chooses to stock some high end guns remark about the “high” prices while ignoring the high quality and historical significance.
Mike
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