I’ve recently seen a couple of Guns for sale that are listed as manufactured during the mid 80’s, but are clearly CRF actions. It was my understanding after 1964 CRF guns didn’t reappear until 1992 or 1994 as the “Classic” series was introduced. Any speculation or clarifications?
Thanks!
“If it ain’t a Colt or a Winchester, it’s probably a copy.”
Hi “B”! I’m with you! My quite clear understanding as yours, that Winchester CRF “production” ended in ’63 and didn’t resume until 1992. (An aforementioned 1991 edition discussed in recent Thread was a so-called Winchester “Custom Shop” limited edition.) That said, perhaps possible such Custom Shop renderings from available parts/components. I’ve not heard of such but not to foreclose the possibility!
I believe quite possibly the answer in the term “production” and whether it could apply to what you or I might term “custom” based on ‘not Winchester factory’.
I’d like to learn more of such claims, but in the category of ‘never say never’!
Best & Stay Safe!
John
Here’s an example…
From Guns International: (I can’t post the direct link)
6990 Winchester model 70 SUPERGRADE 338winmag,26 inch barrel, 1984 Mfg,CLAW EXTRACTOR,AA+Fancy figured walnut. Winchester pad, all original 99% condit
And another
GunBroker.com Item 877974772
“If it ain’t a Colt or a Winchester, it’s probably a copy.”
November 5, 2014

Hi Begger-
The photos are poor, but the Gunbroker gun appears to me to be a non-factory rebarreled, reblued, and restocked pre-64 M70:
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/877974772
I think the serial number is something like 182XXX (1951) and is a typical type III-2 action. The barrel is a factory 375 H&H magnum barrel, but the front ramp appears to be of the brazed on type (1952 or later) so is not likely original to that gun. You also note that a “new” rear sight base has been added (and a third hole drilled). Certainly not factory work. The stock is a pre-64 Monte Carlo stock with the factory red recoil pad (MC should be 1952 or later). I wouldn’t have expected to find a S/N below about 220000 on a pre-64 375 MAGNUM with those features. Of course maybe I just am not making the S/N out correctly… In any event, my gut reaction is that it’s a pre-64 parts gun and the seller is either mistaken as to DOM or referring to when it was modified to its current configuration.
OTOH… The GI offering is a post-63 rifle:
I know nothing about post-63 production. Maybe the seller is, again, confused as to DOM?
Not much help, I’m afraid
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
OK Gents! Found the listing. As noted, referencing “1984”. Reviewed a series of good pix privided. My absolute belief this is a post ’91 rifle. Compared it with my ’93 Classic Super Grade in same .338 chambering and everything looks about the same particularly including exact nomenclature.
“Occam’s Razor”: most likely a typo “84” – intended as “94”. Such or the seller simply misinformed.
That said, he’s a dealer and apparently with other listings which I didn’t explore. Particularly in “dealer” context, that’s (ostensibly) the kind of error to come back & bite you, providing purchaser claim of “detrimental reliance upon a material representation”. His phone is there, so if sufficiently motivated (I’m not), ring him up and inquire!
For me, “case closed.” But fun momentary pursuit… Especially when researching “never say never” context! 🙂
Best & Stay Safe!
John
First the disclaimer that due to my super-duper anti-malware program, without jumping hoops; unable to move past the first “usual suspect” photo… Myself too lazy as well! That said, from what I saw in the single pix; believe adequate for the ‘opine’ provided here.
‘If’ we’re viewing the same rifle, SN G19076, in 338 Win Mag, that would appear one of the homeliest alleged Super Grade rifle stocks I’ve seen! According to my ‘Winchester nineties era CRF Model 70’ serial number listing… That SN would place squarely in 1992 production. ‘IF’ that rifle started life as a Super Grade ‘with that stock’, its utilitarian, unadorned motif a poor match. To me urging ‘non-original’. “Super Grade is very much about superior, artistic-functional aesthetics. Whatever that rifle is, it doesn’t make the bar for any ‘SG’ I’d expect.
Just my take!
Best!
John
Hi Chuck! “CRF” is “Controlled Round Feed”. The mechanism in bolt action rifles, by which rounds stowed in the magazine are introduced into the chamber for firing in a “controlled fashion”. The now modern and widely accepted alternative system termed “Push Feed”. The difference, in the early Twentieth Century concept , CRF allegedly assuring considerably better cartridge management in getting rounds chambered without incident as well as more foolproof extraction of testy too often ‘variable quality ammo. Warfare apparently confirming the CRF virtue as such central to heralded “Mauser system” rifles and many sporting bolt rifles heir! Push feed and it’s own variants nowadays including “controlled round push feed”, have developed conjunctive with superior engineering, materials and production methods. Objectively, as viable bolt rifle functional alternative.
Yet the ‘residual’. From an era where CRF ruled military and sporting bolt rifle markets, such relics as myself also occurring! Growing up with “real steel & wood, ruggedness, classic ‘bulletproof’ design, contemporary quality of construction! Nowadays, CNC precision machinery, designs unavailable to earlier era engineering/fabrication. Composites of carbon fiber, etc… All such not equaling for me, the combo of stars coming together in the 1936-63 era Model 70 and only ‘bit compromised ’91+ Win 70 edition as strong ‘also ran’ objects of desire! 🙂 🙂 🙂
Hopefully answering your question in true ‘politician’ fashion, turning a simple reply into as ‘statement’!
Best & Stay Safe!
iskra said
Hi Chuck! “CRF” is “Controlled Round Feed”. The mechanism in bolt action rifles, by which rounds stowed in the magazine are introduced into the chamber for firing in a “controlled fashion”. The now modern and widely accepted alternative system termed “Push Feed”. The difference, in the early Twentieth Century concept , CRF allegedly assuring considerably better cartridge management in getting rounds chambered without incident as well as more foolproof extraction of testy too often ‘variable quality ammo. Warfare apparently confirming the CRF virtue as such central to heralded “Mauser system” rifles and many sporting bolt rifles heir! Push feed and it’s own variants nowadays including “controlled round push feed”, have developed conjunctive with superior engineering, materials and production methods. Objectively, as viable bolt rifle functional alternative.Yet the ‘residual’. From an era where CRF ruled military and sporting bolt rifle markets, such relics as myself also occurring! Growing up with “real steel & wood, ruggedness, classic ‘bulletproof’ design, contemporary quality of construction! Nowadays, CNC precision machinery, designs unavailable to earlier era engineering/fabrication. Composites of carbon fiber, etc… All such not equaling for me, the combo of stars coming together in the 1936-63 era Model 70 and only ‘bit compromised ’91+ Win 70 edition as strong ‘also ran’ objects of desire! 🙂 🙂 🙂
Hopefully answering your question in true ‘politician’ fashion, turning a simple reply into as ‘statement’!
Best & Stay Safe!
So a Winchester is a CRF and a Remington is a push feed?
Nope, Chuck! Think “Diversity”! In Winchester, the “push feed era”, as Firm in ‘revolution’ itself; occurring in the 1964+ Model 70 as abandoning CRF for Push Feed! A principal, and one of the controversial features other than aesthetics, generating all the “pre ’64” fuss and consequent CRF “Beatification” ‘aura’!
From ’64 to early nineties, PF as the only Winchester game in town! Love it or leave it – and many viewing that Post ’64 package… Initially did! Nowadays ‘back to the future’, as CRF is again firmly nested in Winchester branding since about ’92 as ‘production’ ensued.
As to Remington… They ‘cut their teeth’ on CRF in production “turn-bolt” rifles. From US Model 1917 contract (Winchester too). After war, rebranding a “civilized” sporting version in 1921. Becoming the Remington Model 30 rifle. In 1940-41 the successor Model 720. Such ‘remake’, Remington dithering – rearranging deck chairs – as the Model 70 we know & love, by then half decade in production! Then there was the wartime US Remington 1903 & 1903A3 production.
Remington latter forties intro of it’s PF. Making a reliable rifle of it in the Models 721 and intermediate action 722. The Model 725 latter fifties as ‘spiffed up’ iteration. In about ’62, the heralded Model 700 series, as yet mainstay since. I don’t know all the machinations of ‘Rem’ but was surprised as they intro’ed a true mauser pattern action Model 798, (Zastava manufacture I believe) about a decade or so ago. About as true CRF specimen to be found!
The ‘pre ’64 Mod 70 for me is ‘heralded’ by the CRF action type, but nowadays more a distinguishing feature than any kind of huge advantage. Technology, now long proven, have provided worthy alternatives and presenting certain material advantages in their own right. The ‘aura’ effect to me remains in the convergence of several stars; materials – 41xx series Chrome Moly for barrel, receiver and bolt. The fact that, to my knowledge, few manufacturers today feature such extensive utilization. Mod 70 ‘pre’ design – for the day, no compromises. The engineers quite apparently having ‘their way’. An expensive manufacturing route at the time. Workmanship, simply put fulfilling the triad; connecting the dots, “Doing it once, doing it right!”
A couple more volumes I could write! But leaving the CRF matter with a small factoid. If not counting as “production” Charles Newton’s first rifle design, the little Savage Model 1920, intro’ed in that year, was the first US “Production” CRF sporting rifle.
Final note, beyond simply ‘hands on’; believe I now own all of the mentioned rifles discussed here except: Rem 722 & 725, past owned & Rem 798 never, yet several considerably nicer Zastava (Serbia) comparable stocked/furnished mauser action iterations.
Thanks for granting me the, if not ‘gut wrenching’, at least ‘gut spilling’ op! 🙂 🙂 🙂
Best to all & Stay Safe!
John
iskra said
Nope, Chuck!
But leaving the CRF matter with a small factoid. If not counting as “production” Charles Newton’s first rifle design, the little Savage Model 1920, intro’ed in that year, was the first US “Production” CRF sporting rifle.
Thanks for granting me the, if not ‘gut wrenching’, at least ‘gut spilling’ op! 🙂 🙂 🙂
Best to all & Stay Safe!
John
I have a 256 Newton made in 1916 with the multi lug set up and claw extractor. The only other bolt action I have is my paper puncher built on a Remington type action. Thanks for all of the history.
Hello Chuck! Thanks for providing the great ‘opening’! Charles Newton & his rifles! “Coincidentally” having a specimen, “First Model” (“Buffalo Newton” too)! Here, just by way of response, sharing a few quick pix and notation concerning this “Charles the First” edition. 🙂 A rifle well before its time!
Pix largely speaking for themselves. One notable feature I’m amazed never copied to my knowledge. The unique ‘takedown’ feature: Open the floorplate which is hinge-secured to the front action screw!
Raise it a bit & employ as screw handle to rotate and unscrew the forward action bolt. A hook feature of the action aft, allows the barreled action to be tilted upward, disconnected and lifted from the stock. Nifty! The forward screw is also hand adjustable to provide for proper tension calibration as secured.
These First Model Newtons are scarce for sure. Finding one original-pristine very much more so. Finding one as such in combo with “30-06 U.S.G. chambering… As here, moving toward henn’s teeth! Of course ‘it’, rather common compared to the early twenties edition “Buffalo Newton Model”. My pix & reference concerning Newton & his First Model, both below.
Best & Keep Safe!
John
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