Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters




sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_Print sp_TopicIcon
Crates of pre 64 model 94’s & 95’s
January 7, 2021
12:19 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1405
Member Since:
March 6, 2019
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online

I’m sure this has been discussed before but some newer members might find this a very interesting read from a past auction sale in 2012. I can only imagine finding these crates of rifles today 70 yrs later, not to mention two consecutive pairs.

EXTRAORDINARILY RARE ORIGINAL CRATE OF TEN “UNISSUED” WINCHESTER MODEL 94 SADDLE RING CARBINES. SN 924224, 924599, 924761, 924762, 924783, 924829, 925026, 925502, 930960, 930961.. Cal. 30 WCF (30-30).

Standard carbines with 20″ bbls, full magazines, square base front sights, carbine ladder rear sights with a stud & ring in each receiver. They are mounted with uncheckered straight grain American walnut with straight stocks and carbine buttplates. Eight of the ten carbines have an orig 50th Anniversary gray paper stock band with green edges & red & white “WINCHESTER” logo. All ten carbines have their orig hang tags. This fantastic set of carbines is housed in its orig dovetailed pine wood crate with orig felt-lined dividers and its orig lid. The ends have orig stenciling with a large red “W” trademark. Top edge of one end of the crate, under the lid, has a small paper tag listing the SNs of all ten carbines. The history of this crate of carbines is detailed on pp. 120-121 of the book Winchester Model 94 A Century of Craftsmanship, Renneberg, and in a 4-page article published in an unknown magazine on pp. 26-29, also by Mr. Renneberg. It seems that in 2001 Mr. Renneberg was invited to fly to Oregon to examine this case of carbines, which he did, and discovered them as we find them today. His subsequent research into the history of this rare find led him to discover one other complete case of Model 94 carbines and a complete case of Model 95 carbines.
All trails then led to Herb Glass, Sr. who offered that in about 1950 or 1951 he had been contacted by an individual in New York City who had contracted to clean out a warehouse prior to its being demolished. During the cleaning process this fellow discovered 13 crates of Winchesters about equally divided between Models 94 in cal. 30 WCF and Models 1895 in cal. 30-06. Realizing that he had a significant discovery he called Mr. Glass with the idea of selling them. Mr. Glass immediately traveled to New York and purchased the entire find. He related to Mr. Renneberg that he began selling individual carbines for about $150 each and in fact sold them all except two cases of 94s which he retained intact and later sold, one to a collector in New Jersey and the other to a cattleman in Texas. The Texas collector kept his crate of carbines for about 15 years and then sold it,intact, to a lumber man in southern Oregon who also retained it for about 15 years and sold it to another private collector in Oregon. This collector, after about 25 years, in September 2001, took his crate of Winchesters to a gun show in Washington state and then to the Las Vegas Gun Show where he sold it to Wes Adams. Mr. Renneberg, in his articles, states that he is now aware of two crates 94 carbines and one crate of 95 carbines and that he has personally examined all three. He also offers a speculation as to how they came to be in New York City. He relates that after WWI the U.S. Government not only re-stocked their military arsenals but also stockpiled civilian firearms and that this crate, along with those others sold by Mr. Glass were part of that government stockpile. Mr. Renneberg speculates that the government stockpiled civilian arms remained in storage until the outbreak of WWII when the United States shipped tens of thousands of government owned and donated civilian arms to England for the British Home Guard. The invasion of England never came to pass and when the war was over a large portion of the donated civilian arms were simply destroyed but those still in crates were shipped back to the U.S. and sold on the American market. This story is certainly plausible and makes sense when one considers that these carbines were produced in the very early 1920s and have the 1923 Anniversary stock bands which lends credence to the thought that Winchester simply crated up inventory that they had on hand at the time which would have included arms from different years of manufacture. A cursory examination of the top five carbines disclosed that they are all pristine new with no discernible flaws and no flaking with orig factory grease still on the metal. They, all ten, have their orig short pieces of hemp string tied through the saddle rings to prevent saddle ring wear and eight of the ten have orig stock bands as noted above. It is also possible to see that all ten carbines have their hang tags and the accompanying ten hand made wooden cleaning rods in the bottom of the crate. There are two sets of two consecutively numbered carbines out of the ten. Accompanied by a custom built Plexiglas cover for the crate to be displayed with the lid off to expose the interior. This is truly an exceptional and once in a lifetime opportunity to purchase one of the few remaining orig crates of Winchester carbines.

PROVENANCE: Wes Adams Estate Collection. CONDITION: Carbines are all pristine new and unused, appearing to never have been cycled. Crate shows handling & storage nicks & dings with some wear on the bottom ends & edges and light to moderate soil. Stenciling on the ends of the crate is all clear and legible. Plexiglas cover is a little nicked & dinged but intact. 4-44430 (50,000-100,000)
Auction: Firearms – Spring 2012

https://www.morphyauctions.com/jamesdjulia/item/lot-2081-extraordinarily-rare-original-crate-of-ten-unissued-winchester-model-94-saddle-ring-carbines-44430/

January 7, 2021
3:09 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 801
Member Since:
December 21, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

It would be nice but jeez I have a big enough job carting 25-30 guns around to display at shows, it would be a real chore carting around crates of them. It’s a lot easier for the Colt collectors than it is for the Winchester collectors to set up .  , especially when one is getting advanced in years. I used to just carry stuff into My tables, now I use a cart. When I get old I’m going to start collecting miniatures Wink

W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.

January 7, 2021
3:32 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1405
Member Since:
March 6, 2019
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online

Henry these empty crates would be a help to cart 10 at a time but I prob couldn’t afford one in that condition.

January 7, 2021
4:10 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1152
Member Since:
July 8, 2012
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online

Rick,

Those are very nice.  I remember seeing them when they were auctioned. 

I have this one with the crate. It belonged to N&W Railway co.

Al

January 7, 2021
5:34 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2809
Member Since:
March 31, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Al, the link won’t open for me?

January 7, 2021
6:02 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1152
Member Since:
July 8, 2012
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online

Chuck,

It’s a .pdf file. Not sure if the forum supports that file format or not.  Maybe someone can let us know.

Al

January 7, 2021
6:04 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1405
Member Since:
March 6, 2019
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online

tionesta1 said
Rick,

Those are very nice.  I remember seeing them when they were auctioned. 

I have this one with the crate. It belonged to N&W Railway co.

Al  

Al
I was waiting to reply thinking you were correcting it eventually.

January 7, 2021
9:54 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2424
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

All very cool.  I have to admit, particularly a crate of ’95 SRC’s would really get my blood going.  I do recall when these were put up for auction.  Also, Bob talks about the crate of 94’s in his book.  I recall he was asked to appraise them.

January 7, 2021
10:14 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1405
Member Since:
March 6, 2019
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online

$218,000 divided by 10 rifles = $21,800 each(throw the crate in for free). What do you all think of this price?

January 7, 2021
10:34 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2424
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

RickC said
$218,000 divided by 10 rifles = $21,800 each(throw the crate in for free). What do you all think of this price?  

I think it’s a good example of the, “whole being greater than the sum of its parts”

January 8, 2021
2:04 am
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1405
Member Since:
March 6, 2019
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
January 8, 2021
2:32 pm
Avatar
Kingston, WA
Forum Posts: 11852
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

tionesta1 said
Rick,

Those are very nice.  I remember seeing them when they were auctioned. 

I have this one with the crate. It belonged to N&W Railway co.

Al  

Al,

Your attachment does not have the  “.pdf’ file extension on it, which is why it is not opening.

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

January 8, 2021
3:27 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1152
Member Since:
July 8, 2012
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online

Bert H. said

Al,

Your attachment does not have the  “.pdf’ file extension on it, which is why it is not opening.  

That’s funny. I just checked the file properties and it’s a .pdf file. 

I renamed it and try the upload again here:

January 8, 2021
3:34 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1405
Member Since:
March 6, 2019
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online

Wow nice rifle Al. Thanks for sharing.

January 8, 2021
3:43 pm
Avatar
Kingston, WA
Forum Posts: 11852
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Al,

Success, it worked!

What is the serial number written on the tag?  I believe I an seeing “9372?2” ?

Do you know what the serial numbers were for all (10) guns in that crate?  I have S/N 937621 and 937686 in the survey as “N&W. RWY. Co.” marked guns.

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

January 8, 2021
4:56 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2424
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Al – WONDERFUL!  Thanks for sharing.

January 10, 2021
1:39 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1152
Member Since:
July 8, 2012
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online

Bert H. said
Al,

Success, it worked!

What is the serial number written on the tag?  I believe I an seeing “9372?2” ?

Do you know what the serial numbers were for all (10) guns in that crate?  I have S/N 937621 and 937686 in the survey as “N&W. RWY. Co.” marked guns.  

Bert,

The serial number is 937282. I don’t have the serial numbers for the rest of the carbines in the crate. What’s interesting about this particular carbine is that it is not stamped on the top of the comb N&W Rwy Co.  I believe the carbines in this crate were not stamped because they were never issued for use by the railroad and remained in a warehouse un-noticed until discovered in 1967 by Chief Special Agent R.M Gillispie.

This crate was shipped to the Norfolk & Western R.R. Co. of Roanoke, VA in the 1920s. The crate was discovered by Norfolk & Western Chief Special Agent R.M. Gillispie in 1967 with 10 Model 1894s which had never been issued for security detail. Special Agent Gillispie sold the rifles to Norfolk & Western employees for $75.00 each. This crate retains the 1967 shipping label addressed to Norfolk & Western Regional Chief Special Agent L.H. Smith of St. Louis.

The carbines that were issued for use were stamped.

Comb-Marking.jpgImage Enlarger

Al

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments
January 10, 2021
5:32 pm
Avatar
Kingston, WA
Forum Posts: 11852
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Al,

Thanks for the update.  I have added a note to the survey on your Carbine.  It would be nice to track down the other guns that were in that crate.

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Forum Timezone: UTC 0

Most Users Ever Online: 628

Currently Online: Bill Hockett, steff, Maverick, mrcvs, tionesta1, Erin Grivicich, RickC
68 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)


Forum Stats:

Groups: 1

Forums: 16

Topics: 9179

Posts: 79037


Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1238

Members: 10631

Moderators: 4

Admins: 3


Top Posters:

1873man: 4927

TXGunNut: 3360

clarence: 3234

Chuck: 2809

twobit: 2717

steve004: 2424

Maverick: 1799

Big Larry: 1631

JWA: 1605

RickC: 1405