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Here’s our latest episode from the ranch. Some great fun with a couple of early consecutive 1892’s.
Great video Mark. I also posted it in the What’s New category for the WACA Facebook members before I saw your post here. Didn’t mean to duplicate. Appreciate your time & commitment.
RickC
Thanks a bunch for your support, Rick! I’m glad you’re enjoying the videos. It’s been pretty difficult to find the time to keep making them since I started full-time gunsmithing school and am only home on the weekends. I’ve considered putting the channel on hiatus until I finish school, but I really enjoy making them and I’ve gotten such great feedback for people like you who are watching them that I’ll keep trying to add an episode or two when I can.
November 7, 2015
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Great video, Mark! Really enjoy those 1892’s and the 38WCF cartridge. Was headed out to test a “repair” and I thin I’ll try and dig out my 1892 and take it along. It’s a high six-digit SN and almost exactly 600,000 away from my other 92 (799326 and 199497) but they’re fun guns. Older one is a re-lined 32-20 with a tang sight and Lyman front sight. May try to find it, too!
Mike
Mark,
Not that you need much encouragement, but keep it up! I think I might need to make a trip to your locale next year with some of my Model 1885 Single Shot rifles… it would make for another great video.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Thanks guys! I really had a blast making this one. I’m glad you enjoyed it too. Mark
Bert H. said
Mark,
Not that you need much encouragement, but keep it up! I think I might need to make a trip to your locale next year with some of my Model 1885 Single Shot rifles… it would make for another great video.
Bert
Bert, That would be great! I’ll hold off doing an 1885 episode until you can make it to our little corner of paradise with some of your treasures. Mark
That was another fun time, Mark, thanks! Helps start the day of on a great note!
James
Good morning all,
I thought I might weigh in on this subject. AS you all know I have been working on my survey of the 1892’s for around 8 years now. In that time I have collected data on almost 14,600 individual rifles from around the world. The lowest consecutive number rifles I have seen are SN 62 and 63. SN 202 and 203 are the next oldest. I have also found several occurrences of 3 consecutive numbers. In all I have noted 54 pairs of consecutive numbered rifles. Doing a little bit of math that equates to just .7% of all the rifle I have seen!
I do think that consecutive numbered pairs are worth a bit more money. Just like any other “unique” variation that someone may or may not like. The ability to put a pair together takes a heck of A LOT of looking or a good dose of luck as in Mark’s case. I have never seen an offered pair of consecutive rifles offered. Therefore the first hurdle is buying several rifles and then looking, looking, looking for the other two on either side of it for years and years. First take into account that these rifles went all over the world. The last time I did a bit of looking (when I had 12,500 rifles noted) almost 10% of my sample were from Australia. So unless one is willing to scour international auctions and then try to import rifles there are a lot of guns outside the possibility to be obtained. Then reduced possibility once the Model 53 came into the 1892 SN sequence. To locate possibilities and acquire them is truly a rare occurrence.
Now a lot of this might be viewed as self serving since I do own a pair of consecutive rifles within a very narrow range of offsetting numbered rifles. And I do search daily to be able to fill in the gaps. Mine are SN 6413, 6418 & 6419, 6424, 6428, and 6475. It is one in this sequence that I bought by live bidding over the phone while sitting in a tree stand hunting a few years ago! So, pretty much any rifle between 6412 and 6429 I am going to be working hard, read spending money, to acquire.
Are they worth more than other rifles. That is ALWAYS up to the buyer and seller. I can tell you this though, the occurrence of having them is truly rare.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
Great post Mike & yes I never really thought about how many might actually be out there world wide.
RickC
twobit said, The lowest consecutive number rifles I have seen are SN 62 and 63.
Michael,
I should have double-checked with you before I made the video. When I put these together, I asked and I thought you told me they were the earliest consecutive pair you knew about. Just goes to show how claiming to have the earliest SN or the earliest consecutive numbers only lasts until an earlier one (or pair) turns up. The same can be said for guns believed to be a “one-of-a-kind”.
It’s risky to pay extra for the earliest or “one-of-a-kind” firearm, since it may not be that tomorrow. Last year, I paid more than I would have liked to buy SN 12 Model 1895, knowing it was the earliest known 1895 to surface. (SN 19, an 1895 musket at the Cody Firearms Museum, was previously believed to be the oldest surviving serialized 1895). Since then, I’ve been waiting to see when any in the 1-11 range would show up and drop the value of mine by 25% or more.
My wife, the Colt Lightning collector, is the smart one in the family. When I find a low serial number Lightning for her to look at, she politely says, “Oh, that’s nice honey” and moves along to a much nicer rifle with a lower price tag.
This is sort of in line with this post. I have a consecutive pair of Winchester M1 Garands from 1944.
Michael’s sharp eye allowed me to put a pair of 61’s together. I had S/N 61356 on Michael’s survey. He alerted me to S/N 61355 for sale on the internet which I purchased. I made up a small display that I planned to setup a the Cody show last July. Due to the Covid 19 I did not make it, maybe next year. Thanks again Michael. RR
The problem with trying to assemble consecutive serial numbers is you don’t know what the condition of the gun with an adjacent serial number might be. I own a Winchester 1886 serial number 80312. Years ago serial number 80311 or 80313 (I cannot recall which) came up for sale at auction. The stock was cracked badly and the barrel and magazine had been cut and it had no condition. Not even worth pursuing. I believe it hammered for $400, which was the value of the receiver at that time.
Win61 said
Michael’s sharp eye allowed me to put a pair of 61’s together. I had S/N 61356 on Michael’s survey. He alerted me to S/N 61355 for sale on the internet which I purchased. I made up a small display that I planned to setup a the Cody show last July. Due to the Covid 19 I did not make it, maybe next year. Thanks again Michael. RR
I do remember that. I am always happy to help. Glad that you are enjoying them.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
Mark Douglas said
twobit said, The lowest consecutive number rifles I have seen are SN 62 and 63.
Michael,
I should have double-checked with you before I made the video. When I put these together, I asked and I thought you told me they were the earliest consecutive pair you knew about. Just goes to show how claiming to have the earliest SN or the earliest consecutive numbers only lasts until an earlier one (or pair) turns up. The same can be said for guns believed to be a “one-of-a-kind”.
It’s risky to pay extra for the earliest or “one-of-a-kind” firearm, since it may not be that tomorrow. Last year, I paid more than I would have liked to buy SN 12 Model 1895, knowing it was the earliest known 1895 to surface. (SN 19, an 1895 musket at the Cody Firearms Museum, was previously believed to be the oldest surviving serialized 1895). Since then, I’ve been waiting to see when any in the 1-11 range would show up and drop the value of mine by 25% or more.
My wife, the Colt Lightning collector, is the smart one in the family. When I find a low serial number Lightning for her to look at, she politely says, “Oh, that’s nice honey” and moves along to a much nicer rifle with a lower price tag.
Good morning Mark,
This will point out the difficulty and uniqueness of having consecutive numbered rifles. According to my image files I found SN 63 in October of 2011. I did not find SN 62 until March of 2018. So all you have to do is be willing to keep looking for 6 and a half years!!! Mark, do you recall when you put your pair together?
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
mrcvs said
The problem with trying to assemble consecutive serial numbers is you don’t know what the condition of the gun with an adjacent serial number might be. I own a Winchester 1886 serial number 80312. Years ago serial number 80311 or 80313 (I cannot recall which) came up for sale at auction. The stock was cracked badly and the barrel and magazine had been cut and it had no condition. Not even worth pursuing. I believe it hammered for $400, which was the value of the receiver at that time.
I totally agree that you never know what the condition might be of the consecutive rifles. But it might also work the other way. You could buy a 50% rifle as a shooter and then stumble upon an wonderful conditioned consecutive rifle! My SN 6413 (pictured) is definitely a bit below what I would normally purchase if it had not been close to the other 6400 series rifles I already owned. So I bought it primarily to put in the sequence. I may never find a consecutive gun to it or fill in any of the rifle between 6413 my next rifle at 6418. BUT if 6412 04 6414 pops up I am going to be tickled to have it already. Doing this is just a part of the game we play. We all look for something.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
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