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July 7, 2026
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Hello all,
I am new to this forum, so let me give you a brief intro.
I am 64 yrs old, living in Sweden. I have always been a fan of lever-action rifles, and got really hooked when shooting a M94, chambered in 30WCF, when I was in AZ in the 90´s
The gun laws here in Sweden are quite different than in the US. For instance, as a hunter, you were only allowed to have 4 guns without having to motivate the purpose. It was possible to extend it to 6 guns, if you could give the police a good motivation why you need so many.
And you need to store them in a security graded gun cabinet. So no nice collector guns hanging on the wall.
This of course meant that I had to choose wisely what guns to have, depending on what game I was hunting.
But from June 1st. we are allowed to have 10 guns, without having to motivate why we want them. So this has now opened up the possibility for me to add a Winchester 94 to my cabinet.
And now to my question.
I have found several Commemorative Winchesters. They are all new and have never been fired. Those I have found are:
Brave Land and Bold Men, 30-30 from 1970
Apache, 30-30 from 1974
Klondike, 30-30 from 1975
Little Big Horn, 44-40 from 1976
Sioux, 30-30 from 1976
Cheyenne, 44-40 from 1977
Bat Masterson, 30-30 from 1979
Even though they are in 3 different stores, spread around Sweden, I assume they all come from the same collection.
So how is the quality of the guns above? Several articles (and experts) state that they are of a less quality than an ordinary M94 from the same era, since they were supposed to hang on a wall in a timber lodge somewhere in Wyoming, Vermont or Maine.
Is this true, or are they really a stock gun from the beginning, that just got better wood and some nickel or gold plating.
I would like to buy one of the ones chambered in 30WCF and use it for hunting. But if it is just a bling-bling gun to have on the wall, I have no use for it.
So what do you think??
Regards
Georg
December 9, 2002
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Hello Georg and Welcome,
Most Collectors here on the WACA Forum like the Pre-1964 Winchester rifles and many with history. Theirs many different levels and kinds of Winchester Collectors.
One pretty well known fact is the Quality of the Pre-64 Winchester Manufacturing, had changed after 1964, prompting many of us to pursue the earlier examples. It could be an assumption of these facts, that may be confusing with the commemorative rifles, that Winchester started production in 1964 with the 1964 Wyoming Diamond Jubilee 94 carbine. So a lesser quality rifle could be possibly based on these facts! IMHO!
That being said, as times change and things in life change, you will find some that collect and like the Winchester commemoratives. As far as the “experts “, and “the several articles”, that you refer to, and what their saying, maybe you can enlighten us on these articles, and post some links here. We have to be careful with some of the information, as it can be either wrong or an opinion, and not a fact from a bona fide gunsmith who works on Winchesters and has done the comparison at the bench and at the range! IMHO!
Many collectors of the Winchester commemorative rifles like the NIB, UN-fired condition, and barter/trade and sell these often, on Guns International, Gun Broker, and in Auctions. You’re assumption that the ones that you found nearby at different locations, could be from one person or not. No matter as things are a little different over in Switzerland where you’re at, than here in the USA!
It’s very possible to buy a Winchester Pre-64/post war rifle, to hunt with, in the .30 WCF/30-30 Caliber, and it doesn’t have to be a commemorative rifle. Being where you’re at, I’m suspecting those might be hard to come by, explaining more of you’re situation or dilemma.
Many of the knowledgeable collectors are currently heading to the WACA Cody, Wyoming show that is held annually and might no respond right away to this. One in particular I’m sure can add to this, Henry Mero, who is very knowledgeable on the commemorative rifles. Be patient and some more responses might come in.
Tony
January 8, 2025
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The more knowledgeable collectors like Anthony will advise you on collecting and collectibility.
As far as shooting, buy whatever caliber has the best ammunition availability in your area. sounds like you want a gun to shoot. On the YouTube, I’ve seen reviews of commemorative Winchesters that shot great and some that had terrible bores from the factory. I’m sure Zeb will be along to inform you on the merits of the miroukoo rifles.
I don’t know what the market is like in Sweden but you may look for a pre-64 94 30-30 shooter grade.
-Adam
December 31, 2020
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It is my personal observation that commemoratives ‘94s function and perform exactly like their “standard” production counterparts.
The difference is in the aesthetic and the packaging.
I own a very low serial number 94 Centennial ‘66 commemorative rifle in 30 WCF, the heavy octagonal barrel makes it very accurate, although it has been many years since I last used it.
My reply to the shooting questions would be, do not shoot it if the piece is unfired, it will lose collectability value. BUT if the piece has already been used, absolutely yes, they are post/64 Winchester 94s, in the good and in the bad … in my opinion mostly good.
December 9, 2002
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I feel these are both some very good responses, and I can agree with them both on many accounts.
Tony
May 14, 2025
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GGeorgsson said
Hello all,
I am new to this forum, so let me give you a brief intro.
I am 64 yrs old, living in Sweden. I have always been a fan of lever-action rifles, and got really hooked when shooting a M94, chambered in 30WCF, when I was in AZ in the 90´s
The gun laws here in Sweden are quite different than in the US. For instance, as a hunter, you were only allowed to have 4 guns without having to motivate the purpose. It was possible to extend it to 6 guns, if you could give the police a good motivation why you need so many.
And you need to store them in a security graded gun cabinet. So no nice collector guns hanging on the wall.
This of course meant that I had to choose wisely what guns to have, depending on what game I was hunting.
But from June 1st. we are allowed to have 10 guns, without having to motivate why we want them. So this has now opened up the possibility for me to add a Winchester 94 to my cabinet.
And now to my question.
I have found several Commemorative Winchesters. They are all new and have never been fired. Those I have found are:
Brave Land and Bold Men, 30-30 from 1970
Apache, 30-30 from 1974
Klondike, 30-30 from 1975
Little Big Horn, 44-40 from 1976
Sioux, 30-30 from 1976
Cheyenne, 44-40 from 1977
Bat Masterson, 30-30 from 1979
Even though they are in 3 different stores, spread around Sweden, I assume they all come from the same collection.
So how is the quality of the guns above? Several articles (and experts) state that they are of a less quality than an ordinary M94 from the same era, since they were supposed to hang on a wall in a timber lodge somewhere in Wyoming, Vermont or Maine.
Is this true, or are they really a stock gun from the beginning, that just got better wood and some nickel or gold plating.
I would like to buy one of the ones chambered in 30WCF and use it for hunting. But if it is just a bling-bling gun to have on the wall, I have no use for it.
So what do you think??
Regards
Georg
Hi Georg,
Welcome my friend! We are glad to have you! I’m an avid Winchester Commemorative collector so freely admit my bias here! My heart goes out to you guys, as like you we love the Winchester 94’s and can’t imagine being limited to 10 much less 6. Although admittedly, my bank acct would look much healthier! Now, as to your questions…
1. To shoot a Commemorative or not? It is a myth that Commemorative collectors (at least all the ones I know) care if it has been fired. We don’t! We care the same as every collector does if the gun has been abused. No more no less. The same is true of the box it comes in. If you have the original box your 1930 1894 came in, it is worth more than if you don’t. The better condition the better a collector values any Winchester! Exact same for the Commemorative market.
2. Is the quality just as good. Yes, it was made in the exact same plant, by the exact same people and to the exact same standards as regular 94’s of the same year. Fun fact for everyone is the regular Michelob Commemorative made by Winchester is in fact the non Commemorative Winchester Classic from 67 with the only difference being the addition of the medallion in the butt stock. However, Anthony’s statement on the quality of Pre 1964’s being superior is a “take it to the bank” fact. If Bert our historian weighs in he can advise when the quality improved but I’m thinking mid 70’s so everything on your list except the first one is likely ok as they are 1975 or later models. Hopefully, Bert weighs in as he, Zeb and a few others on here can speak with authority on the post 64 quality issues that I do not possess.
Having said all of that if you want a shooter then a Pre 64 94 is the way to go. If you want a fancy shooter then pick the Commemorative that best speaks to you! I know lots of guys who hunt with Commemoratives and love them. Personal choice for you but Commemoratives from 64 and on get sold every day as shooters!
Best of luck my friend!
Buck
January 20, 2023
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Georg, Welcome to the forum. What I don’t think we have a grip on are your practical alternatives to the various Winchester commemoratives. That is, are there dealers in Sweden who carry currently manufactured American arms? A variety of used American arms? Is it legally possible and financially practical to buy and import from an American dealer?
With respect to the Winchester Model 1894, later simplified to Model 94, let us make certain assumptions:
1. You are not interested in acquiring a high condition specimen made before World War Two, which may or may not have a “shootable” (capable of hunting accuracy) bore, for the primary purpose of displaying and studying it as a collectible, historically interesting object.
2. You are interested in the American lever action rifle as a type, specifically the Model 94, and intend to study it and its history, but you wish to acquire a sound specimen in good condition, capable of at least hunting accuracy, and intend to use it for sport, at the range and in the field.
I suggest there are several classes or phases of the Model 94 that might interest you, although I do not know if all are available to you. (The date ranges are approximations – this is not intended to be a history.)
A. THE PRE-64 VARIANT. Winchester Model 64 rifles or Model 94 carbines made in New Haven, Connecticut after World War Two and before 1964. (The Model 64 rifle was not produced after 1957, except for a cheapened, unsuccessful version produced briefly in 1972-73 that you should avoid.) This is the least controversial version of the Model 94 and they are readily available on the used market in America. They are well made and sufficiently accurate for sporting use in good condition.
B. THE POST 63 VARIANT. Winchester Model 94 carbines made in New Haven between late 1963 and around 1975 are the least favored because their quality of materials and construction were cheapened, the worst examples being those made in the mid-Sixties, gradually improving over 10 years, after which the guns regained their quality. The later guns are not regarded as “collectible” by mainstream WACA collectors but they are fine weapons. The various commemorative issues made during this period suffered and then increased in quality along with the standard catalogued versions. In shorthand, 1964 = poor; 1975 = good.
C. THE POST 1980 VARIANT. At the end of 1980, Olin Industries, which owned and operated the gunmaking business that made Winchester arms since acquiring the machinery and patents from the defunct Winchester Repeating Arms Company out of receivership during the Great Depression, sold the gunmaking assets to an incorporated group of employees and investors, United States Repeating Arms Corporation, and licensed the Winchester brand and marks. Olin retained ownership of those intangible assets because it continued the Winchester Ammunition business.
Winchester 94s made after 1980 continued to be made in New Haven and are excellent, well-finished weapons.
USRAC went through several refinancings and reorganizations, ultimately being acquired by Fabrique Nationale d’Armes de Guerre of Belgium, now known as FN-Herstal. In 2006 FN closed the New Haven plant and ceased production of the Winchester Model 94 until 2010.
D. THE MIROKU VARIANT. In 2010, FN-Herstal restarted production of the Model 94 in Japan by Miroku Corporation, which had been building rifles and shotguns for Browning Arms Company since the early Nineteen Seventies and, before that, the American Charles Daly line of shotguns during the late Fifties and Sixties. This variant of the Winchester Model 94 is by far the most controversial of the lot, with some collectors refusing to acknowledge the guns are “real” Winchesters. To add fuel to the fire, American import restrictions and the demands of American product liability insurers require a positive safety device – implemented in the form of a fairly inconspicuous tang safety – and a rebounding hammer. These “outrages” cause some collectors — most of whom have never shot one — to foam at the mouth.
However, having owned, shot and hunted with at least one Winchester Model 94 or 64 from each of all these categories, it is my studied conviction the Model 94 made by Miroku is by far the best Model 94 ever made. It isn’t even close.
CONCLUSIONS. I wouldn’t myself buy a Model 94 made between 1964 and 1975, including commemoratives. Otherwise, for your purposes, any of the rest in good condition are fine. For hunting accuracy, the later the better.
Assuming you have access and 
y
If you are not stuck on the Model 94, I’d take a hard look at one of the new Model 1886 45/70 rifles or, if you are free to shoot pistol cartridges, a new 1873. The 1873 Winchesters have neither a rebounding hammer nor a tang safety.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
July 7, 2026
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Hello guys,
Thanks for the greetings and feedback. I will try to answer you in order.
@Anthony.
I am aware of the pre-1964 versus post-1964, but pre-1964 94´s are more scarce than hens teeth on this side of the pond.
Regarding the comment, “As far as the “experts “, and “the several articles”, that you refer to, and what their saying, maybe you can enlighten us on these articles, and post some links here. We have to be careful with some of the information, as it can be either wrong or an opinion, and not a fact from a bona fide gunsmith who works on Winchesters…” One of the articles I read about this, is from a Swedish hunting magazine where they describe the ´94 as the king of leveractions, but…
Anniversary models fool buyers The Model 9422 was manufactured for both .22 LR and .22 Magnum. We’ve all seen Winchester’s anniversary models. Like anniversary plates and other crap, they’re only there to fool people who have a little too much money in their wallets. Generally speaking, it can be said that anything that is made to be collected never has any collector value. This also applies to weapons. However, there are a few examples where the rifle is completely untouched in its original box. Then there are a few collectors in the USA who pay for these weapons. But in Sweden they are clearly worth less than real guns and definitely a bad investment. (Translated from the article)
And regarding the expert, I assune many of you reckognize the brand SPUHR. Håkan Spuhr is the inventor behind the brand, and he is a member of “American Custom Gunmakers Guild”. This is what he had to say, when I asked him for an advise.
They are generally considered inferior weapons to their equivalent rifles intended for shooting. I would have avoided them altogether as, in addition to being inferior, they are also so ugly that only a mother could love them. (ouch, but don´t shoot the messenger
)
@Cowboy4.
My reply to the shooting questions would be, do not shoot it if the piece is unfired, it will lose collectability value.
Well, since gun collecting is more or less impossible in Sweden, I assume there is no change in value, fired or unfired. Maybe if the guns were shipped to USA, they might be worth more unfired, but the difference in price would probably be eaten up by all the bureaucracy.
@Zebulon.
What I don’t think we have a grip on are your practical alternatives to the various Winchester commemoratives. That is, are there dealers in Sweden who carry currently manufactured American arms? A variety of used American arms? Is it legally possible and financially practical to buy and import from an American dealer?
Yes, there are dealers in Sweden that carry American arms, for instance Ruger (I have two), Winchester, Remington to name a few. There are also several AR brands.
And legally, I can buy from an American dealer, as long as that particular dealer can fix all the export license paperwork. You guys are actually way more strict than Sweden in that way. But is it financially practical? No, not for a private person. Maybe if you can persuade a dealer in Sweden to bring the gun home together with their ordinary shipment. And when it comes to the ´94, it seems like there is not so much interest in offering them in Europe.
For instance, the Model 94 Sporter or the Model 94 Deluxe Sporting, that can be found on winchesterguns.com are not presented on the European site. But they have Model 1873, 1886 and 1892, some in 44-40 and some in 45-70, but none in 30-30.
Your list of different variants is interesting. I checked Miroku, and it seems like they only offer shotguns in EU. So back to square one there.
So I guess that I will have to keep my eyes open and check different auction sites for a Pre-1964 gun. The problem is that I know of several other hunters that are also after it so it might get expensive
Again, thanks for your comments, and stay safe!
Georg
January 8, 2025
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Happy hunting Georg. Let us know what you find.
January 20, 2023
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Georg, Before you discount them, take a look at a new Model 73. It is the closest Winchester reissue to the 19th Century original and is available in 357 Magnum caliber. When loaded with 180 grain flatnosed lead or half-jacketed bullets, in a rifle it approximates original .30 WCF ballistics. I have one and would not hesitate to hunt our feral hogs and Whitetailed deer at modest ranges of, say, up to a hundred meters.
If you can find a used Pre64 Model 64 rifle, perhaps those are less popular in Sweden than the “American Cowboy” appearing Model 94 carbine. The 64 is more expensive here and was when it was new. It is the better rifle for hunting.
Stay in touch and good luck in your search.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
December 9, 2002
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Georg,
It sure sounds as though you’re in a tough situation, and you made it pretty clear that you being in Switzerland, have you’re limitations on not only firearm ownership in numbers from 4 to the latest change of owning 10, but the availability to find and have some of the same choices we do here in the U.S.!
Like you stated it doesn’t make sense financially to ship a hunting rifle Internationally, and the choices to find one there are certainly limited.
Good Luck to you!
Tony
January 8, 2025
Online
Georg,
Here is an example of 2 Winchesters, both shooters.
top is a near mint (or was when I bought it) 1974 94 in 30-30
bottom is a 1950 94 in 25-35. Lesser condition shooter grade
both rifles will work on any game in my area of the Midwest. Both are fun to shoot.
the 25-35 is over $2.00 a round where the 30-30 is around $1.00 or less. The 25-35 however is more fun to shoot and has a flatter trajectory. If I’m going to take one with me, it’s the pre-64 every time.
Due to condition, both rifles will be in the $700 range here.
November 19, 2006
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Georg –
Obviously your situation over there is very different from ours. The selection and availability of specific firearms, values, what is considered collectible, the complications of having firearms shipped from the outside… all of these are factors that impact you. Given all that, my thought would be to go with what’s available. You list several commemoratives presently available. Pick the one you like the best, make the best deal you can on it – and shoot it. It sounds like commemorative firearms over there are generally of less interest anyway, so keeping it in unfired status is of going to be of negligible importance. Your question about the shooting quality of commemorative rifles as compared to the same standard models of the time has been answered.
April 30, 2023
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Welcome to the forums! To answer your original question, the commems haven’t carried big dollars up to now, except for a fewer rarer ones. You do you, if you like a safe queen find the nicest you can and store it up! If you need to shoot them based on the restrictions you mentioned, then find a nice one and then SHOOT, CLEAN, DISPLAY, REPEAT. 🙂
May 14, 2025
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Jeremy P said
Welcome to the forums! To answer your original question, the commems haven’t carried big dollars up to now, except for a fewer rarer ones. You do you, if you like a safe queen find the nicest you can and store it up! If you need to shoot them based on the restrictions you mentioned, then find a nice one and then SHOOT, CLEAN, DISPLAY, REPEAT. 🙂
well, Not big dollars but one heck of a return for whoever consigned it! someone overpaid by a lot for that Commemorative. I would sell all mine today if I could get that margin. They sell everyday on GB for less than half that and you gotta add the 20% BP to that already too high of a price. I’m thinking someone paid 3x what it is actually worth! Holy cow
April 30, 2023
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Buck94 said
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/235454429_winchester-model-94-30-30-wells-fargo-commemorative-lever-rifle-sn-wfc16485-carthage-in
well, Not big dollars but one heck of a return for whoever consigned it! someone overpaid by a lot for that Commemorative. I would sell all mine today if I could get that margin. They sell everyday on GB for less than half that and you gotta add the 20% BP to that already too high of a price. I’m thinking someone paid 3x what it is actually worth! Holy cow
Well, that might be one of the crazier things I’ve seen lately. Absolutely no explanation for that hammer price. Crazy!
January 8, 2025
Online
My uncle collects commemorative riffles. As far as I know they are all 30-30. I’d rather have a 1900–1950 shooter grade, just because I like the character. I’ve realized I’m building a collection that I wish my great grandfather had. I still watch the coms but I look for the odd calibers.
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