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Hey guys I am not new to cleaning guns, but this Winchester 1892 in 25-20 I have seams to be dirty. I have been shooting Remington 86 gn round nose lead 25201. I have run 20+ patches through it and they still have some black on them. I ran a copper brush through it and that helps break the stuff up but still after that I have yet to get a real clean patch out. 1914 rifle. The bore looks great but it is dirty. I seam to get it pretty good but then I run a patch with oil and it will still have some black sooty stuff. I have about 8 of those bullets left and then I plan on casting my own. I am wondering if it is the powder that was dirty back then from the 70’s. Any suggestions are greatly welcome.
Steve
Could say, try other solvents, starting with Ed’s Red, and maybe JB paste; instead, however, I’ll say that excessive cleaning from the muzzle is more detrimental than powder residue. Such scrupulous cleaning may be necessary with BR guns (esp. 22RFs), but sure doesn’t seem justified on an (unpitted) ’92 bore.
I have 4 25-20 W.C.F. Winchesters: an 1885, an 1892 carbine and 2 1892 rifles and have not experience anything like you describe. I have only shot factory loads and my own reloads with 86 grain flat points. For powders I’ve used Unique, AA #9 and AA 1680. After shooting I usually run 1 patch with solvent, 2 or 3 cleaning patches and 1 oil patch and that does it. Not knowing what powder you are using my first guess would be the powder and second would be dried up lubricant on the bullets. As far as that 1970’s powder goes, I still have some 32-20’s I loaded back in the mid 1970’s with Unique and they still shoot clean.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
My reloads have Unique in them. I have not tried them out yet. I have been trying to use up the factory loads first as 25-20 brass is not available right now from anywhere I know of. I have 2 boxes of 86 gn soft points in Remington left also. Those are partly jacketed. The bore has no pits at all and is about as pristine as one could be. I was just thinking the powder they used in those rounds might have been black powder, but that has not been used in many many years.
Steve
If Remington used black powder in those loads you would certainly know it when shooting by the smoke and the black powder stink.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
One thing I noted with many (not all) smokeless handloads and factory loads that duplicate original BP ballistics, is, they leave lots of powder residue in the bore.
GMC(SW) - USN Retired 1978 - 2001
A little trick I use cleaning the bore of lever guns:
Push the rod down the bore and then attach your brush and pull it back out. Same for patches but of course you must use the slotted type jags. Helps keep crap out of the action and a whole lot less chance of damaging the crown.
Erin
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/322277/pro-shot-brass-muzzle-guard-22-to-26-caliber-rod
Here is a handy little tool that will give you peace of mind!
GMC(SW) - USN Retired 1978 - 2001
Roundsworth said
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/322277/pro-shot-brass-muzzle-guard-22-to-26-caliber-rodHere is a handy little tool that will give you peace of mind!
That little brass guide does wonders for protecting the muzzle. I use a couple of different diameter Gunslick solid stainless steel rods that come with the correct guide.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
November 7, 2015
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What solvent are you using? How are you viewing the bore? If it “looks good” I suspect it’s copper fouled based on your patch description. A bore scope would confirm that. I use one of the foaming bore cleaners for a heavy copper fouling, it’s best if you get all of it out before using cast bullets.
I have not been using copper fouling cleaner. I have been using a bore light to look down the barrel. I did not even suspect copper fouling, but it is sure something to consider for sure. I had just assumed lead, or dirty powder. The bore looks great and somewhat shiny all the way through, depending on what one would classify shiny. It does not shine like chrome, but it does reflect the light to glisten.
Steve
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