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On experts and auction houses in reference to TR’s post: Once a person has gained some gun-knowledge and has dealt with the appraisers/experts at the auction houses, to include, those that are well known dealers, they will know for certain that they often make “big” mistakes…just like any of us have made in the past. The difference is that other noted experts who have the best interest of all parties at heart often make “big mistakes” in judgement, too, but by the same token, their knowledge has likely saved more than a few people big bucks. Which brings to mind a comment made by steve004, “One great aspect is there are many knowledgeable people here and collectively, through our differing opinions, we have more to offer as a group than we do individually.” To which I’d like to add that some here are far more knowledgeable than others, and we have the privilege to know and learn from them.
James
Judging by some of the old Winchesters I have seen and handled in some of these big auctions, and the auction description that goes with the gun, I would disagree that the “experts” work for the big auction houses and I also don’t believe that a lot of experts are big gun dealers and sell lots of guns. In both cases, there are some experts but, in my opinion we have more experts among us than the auction houses and big dealers have. I have not been to a huge amount of gun shows, but the dealers I have talked to at the shows I went to were all very proud of what they knew, but didn’t know anything about old Winchesters or colts IMO. Peter
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Eagle said
Judging by some of the old Winchesters I have seen and handled in some of these big auctions, and the auction description that goes with the gun, I would disagree that the “experts” work for the big auction houses…
Absolutely! The first priority of any auction house is to SELL, not provide bidders with meticulous descriptions. And if a certified “expert” does go to work for an auction house, his first priority is likewise to SELL. One of the most carelessly, if not fraudulently, described guns I ever purchased at an auction had been appraised & described by Eric Vaule–considered at the time the “dean” of antique gun appraisers. After threatening legal action (a bluff, actually!), I received a refund, but the experience taught me to beware any “experts” attached to an auction house!
It’s a jungle out there with plenty of painful stories. On the advice to find a mentor – there are times where this works out. There are also times where if the person wrote a book on their mentor experience, they could title it, “How I set myself up to be a mark.”
My advice to newer collectors is to think of collecting as a swimming pool with a shallow end and a deep end. If you stay in the shallow end (e.g. used but not abused rifles) vs. the deep end (e.g. big money, “condition, condition, condition) you will experience far less risk and still find lots of enjoyment. Further, I suggest they consider that a rifle that has been used, showing some respectful use, has a dimension to offer that a rifle that was kept hidden away, does not. I urge them to look for a certain character or ambience that speaks to them personally. I don’t like all, “character” rifles but I REALLY like some of them. 
TR said
Well said, but so is buying a used car. Colt has Kopec, send him the gun, he takes it apart and writes you a letter. The letter has the good and bad, you know what your looking at. If you are looking at a Colt and it has a Kopec Letter, call him up, he knows the gun. The auction houses and big dealers use him. The problem is, Winchester does not have a Kopec. The experts are employed by the auction houses or are in the business of selling guns. The expert can not have a horse in the race, there lies the PROBLEM! T/R
Some of us that have been collecting Winchesters for over 30 years can remember a few so called experts ending up at the wrong end of a lawsuit. There are honest and knowledgeable dealers out there. Beginners need to talk to some of the members here and try to find one in their area. Find out what gun shows are happening and meet a member there.
steve004 said
Further, I suggest they consider that a rifle that has been used, showing some respectful use, has a dimension to offer that a rifle that was kept hidden away, does not. I urge them to look for a certain character or ambience that speaks to them personally. I don’t like all, “character” rifles but I REALLY like some of them.
So do I: when I sold all my ’94s some yrs ago, the one I kept was a rancher or hunter’s gun that had been carried across a saddle bow until a shallow depression had been worn in the forearm. No blue at all, but no evidence either of stupid abuse by some careless fool (that I can’t abide!). Plus, it had been rebarreled with a brl. from a later period That gun has a history!
cwachter said
There are honest and knowledgeable dealers out there. Beginners need to talk to some of the members here and try to find one in their area. Find out what gun shows are happening and meet a member there.
Well said, At the last Tulsa show a collector came up to me with a shopping list and asked for help. I sold him a Deluxe 73 about a year ago, he was happy and wondered if I could help him out. His knowledge was limited, but a smart buyer. When he was dealing on my gun he asked if he could take it to a friend for inspection, I said yes. He took it to Norm Vegely, a very large and knowledgeable gun dealer. Norm had no horse in the race, he gave him advice as to value and originality. Done deal, both parties happy. Back to his shopping list, I looked at the guns he liked. All the guns he spotted were redone, he wisely passed on them. I put him onto one gun that I had spotted, don’t know how it worked out. No money needed to ask a fellow collector. T/R
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