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A friend is cleaning out her safe and discovered a Winchester model 64 deluxe in 32 ws in almost new condition. What we are trying to determine is the scope and mount factory original or installed afterward. What makes this really interesting is the iron sites are mounted canted to the right so they also can be used. The dovetails and all are canted not just altered sites. The Winchester markings on either side of bbl are in correct position. It has no indication at all of any work being done around the iron site dovetails.
It is a weaver mount and a single power weaver scope.
Serial number ID’s it to 1941 manufacture.
Any info on this would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Jerry
Jerry,
Can you send me clear pictures of the front & rear sights on the subject Model 64?
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Here is the picture I saw.
Bob
I just wonder if they backed the barrel off a bit and recut the extractor cuts.
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Good as I can not tell if it went. Sorry my pics are bad. I will have to get it from her and take better pics.
The engraved information on both sides of the barrel are aligned as it would be normally so I would think that if the bbl was backed off they would not be even with the forearm[Image Can Not Be Found][Image Can Not Be Found]
Very hard to tell from the photo, but it definitely shows an off set scope mount. I would not think the sights would be off set, except for maybe being moved to the far right in the dovetail. Need much better photos from several different angles. Would help tremendously, if the scope were removed.
I am not seeing offset sights. What I am seeing is a typical offset scope mount. Can you post a picture (side view) of the left side of the receiver frame?
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
I’m just conjuring the ergonomics of such a setup! Without some sort of butt stock axis swivel provision, rather uncomfortable to fire with open sights, unless… Rifle remaining vertical. Somehow extending neck over the stock comb laying head at comparable angle achieving ‘proper’ open sight ‘picture’. Perhaps custom tailored for contortionist? Could be I’m overly estimating the amount of ‘list’ from vertical necessary to achieve such open sight utilization. But what I’m imagining, suggesting more of a Rube Goldberg arrangement. That not even accounting for the ordinary barrel indexing and extractor cut situation noted above. Last, trying to imagine the Winchester factory engaging such a modification! 🙂
Just my take, picturing the shooter…
John
Having the open sights not on top of the barrel poses some ballistic problems with elevation. How do you elevate the sight if its not elevating directly over the barrel. You would have to roll the gun to the left to get the sights vertical to work properly just like a gang banger shoots their guns.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Cant tell a lot from the photo but it looks like the sights line up right. If you open the bolt and the barrel is flush with the receiver and the inlet in the barrel and receiver are indexed correctly to receive the extractor there should be nothing wrong with the rear or front sight alignment. The pic below is for an 1892 but you get the picture of how it should look.
If you look down the length of the gun from the buttstock to muzzle and line up the front and rear sights as if aiming, the top center of the hammer or centerline of the tang should line up with your sights unless the rear sight has been drifted in its dovetail to one side or the other. When sighting down the barrel with the iron sights, versus down the scope, there will be some eye relief and shoulder adjustment. If your looking down the scope, it could be perceived the sights are canted to the right of the gun.
The offset Weaver scope mounts were pretty popular. They allowed the use of the scope, or open sights, plus the all important offset to allow the cartridge to eject. My grandmothers 94 has the Weaver scope mount and scope much the same.
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
1892takedown is spot on, I have seen a couple 94’s set up this way walking around Wisconsin gun shows. How else would you scope a top ejector. The ones I saw were clearly not done at the factory. T/R
TR said
How else would you scope a top ejector.
ALL scope makers, beginning in the late 19th C., offered side-mounts which positioned the scope about an inch to the shooter’s left, not merely to accommodate top-ejectors, but to allow use of regular iron sights if the scope became disabled.
Aren’t there really two principal issues here? First the Thread intro question, can this rifle as portrayed be “factory” product. I do understand that in eras the factory custom shop was considerably accommodating to customers. That said, I don’t believe in any reasonable context, a rifle with an incorrectly aligned barrel – as I understand the dialog – being a factory product.
The second issue seems to be the very efficacy of such a setup. I do believe that additional photos, as suggested above, could be a lot more revealing. Settling some speculation arising and better defining the actual situation. I’m still with the “Rube” conclusion pending ‘showing me’. Yet open mind and not claiming any special Winchester lever expertise. Yet over half century of interest in rifles & collecting such. Beyond perhaps experimental, this rifle specimen simply not seeming reasonable for any major rifle factory production, domestic or foreign.
Just my take
I will be getting the rifle back and will take better pics.. Thanks everyone!!!
[Image Can Not Be Found]
Let me know if pic came thru. I guess I can only post one at a time.
Well after removing scope (I should of known better) The rear iron site is moved to the right in the original dovetail. It is not set up as I thought. I really appreciate everyone’s time trying to figure this out. It appears this gun was never fired as I did a detailed cleaning of it today and there is no evidence of firing anywhere.
I will keep posting the pics I took of it as if nothing else it is a really fine example of a 1941 64 deluxe 24″ bbl. Its to bad the scope was put on it.
This piece is going to be offered for sale. I would appreciate suggestions where to list it??
Thanks again everyone!!!
Jerry Dougherty
Jerry,
Just looking at the one picture you have it looks like the gun has been refinished. There is a proof stamp on the top of the receiver and it looks well worn or buffed.
To post pictures her as a Guest you have to post them to a third party hoist site and then put the link to it here or email to one of us and we will post them.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
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