Log In
April 9, 2025
Offline
Fellows: I have this beautiful high relief engraved model 70, made in 1958. 68 years ago. It is in pristine condition and I paid a lot of money for it. The stock is also beautifully carved. I would like to find out who the engraver was? It was not a factory engraver. Perhaps someone here will recognize the engraving. It was done by a Master the old fashioned way long before any lasers were around. Hammer and Chisel. Murene said it was not done by Winchester. Any help would be
January 20, 2023
Offline
I downloaded two of your images and asked Gemini Pro to try to identify the engraver. For what it is worth, here is he response I got:
Based on the deep relief scrollwork and the “oak leaf and acorn” (**Eichenlaub**) motif on both the metal and wood, this Winchester Model 70 was almost certainly customized in Germany during the late 1950s. While it is unsigned, the style and timing point to a specific circle of masters.
### Most Likely Identification: The Kurt Jaeger / Willig Circle
In 1958, the most prominent source for this type of work on American rifles was the shop of **Kurt Jaeger** in Mainz, Germany. Jaeger specialized in customizing firearms for U.S. servicemen stationed in Europe and for the American market through his brother **Paul Jaeger** in Jenkintown, Pennsylvania.
* **The Engraver:** The engraving is highly characteristic of the **Willig family**, specifically **Emil Willig** or his son **Claus Willig**. They were the primary engravers for Kurt Jaeger. Their work frequently featured the deep, high-relief oak leaf patterns and fine scrolling seen on the receiver and barrel of this rifle.
* **The Stock Carving:** The relief-carved oak leaves and basketweave checkering (a Germanic alternative to traditional diamond checkering) were typically done by specialized “Schäfter” (stock makers) in the **Suhl** or **Zella-Mehlis** regions who worked under the Jaeger or “Guild” umbrella.
* **Why it’s Unsigned:** In the German gunmaking tradition of that era, individual engravers often did not sign their work due to strict trade guild rules. Frequently, the shop owner’s name (e.g., “Kurt Jaeger, Mainz”) was the only mark, and sometimes even that was omitted if the rifle was a direct “Guild” commission.
### Key Indicators
* **Motif:** The oak leaf and acorn pattern is the “national” engraving style of Germany/Austria, often referred to as **Jager-style**.
* **Technique:** The “shaded” background of the scrollwork and the relief carving on the wood are hallmarks of the **Ferlach** or **Suhl** schools.
* **Rear Sight:** The folding rear sight and the treatment of the barrel breech are common modifications found on rifles sent to the Jaeger shop for “Deluxe” packages.
> **Note:** If you ever find a tiny signature, it might be hidden on the bottom of the receiver tang or under the floorplate hinge, sometimes appearing as a small **”EW”** (Emil Willig) or **”CW”** (Claus Willig).
In my experience, Artificial Intelligence engines — like human experts — are frequently wrong but never in doubt. However, I have found the paid version of Gemini, as opposed to the free version, sufficiently useful to consult in arms collecting matters regularly. These engines have been fed and digested huge quantities of scholarly literature – in fact, everything available to scholars on the Web – including a lot I can’t access directly. You can’t take it to the bank but it is a place to start.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
August 8, 2024
Offline
I agree with Zebulon. The thing to remember is that the dollar was strong against the German mark. So, a service man could of got some nice engraving at a good discount.
January 20, 2023
Offline
Bo Rich said
I agree with Zebulon. The thing to remember is that the dollar was strong against the German mark. So, a service man could of got some nice engraving at a good discount.
Concur, Bo. I was born too late. By the Eighties, West Germany had become an economic powerhouse and the exchange rate flipped. The deutschmark was worth a buck twenty-five for a while I remember going over there in ’83 and getting scalped.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
February 22, 2024
Offline
I beg to differ. The engraving is not Germanic in style either as Black leaf or acorn style. It is more reminiscent of the heavy handed work done in Japan on many guns after the war. I knew Claus Willig and this is not his style either in layout design or quality of cuts. In case you are wondering why I say this, I am an engraver
August 8, 2024
Offline
Thanks Martin! When did you do the work?
February 22, 2024
Offline
Bo I never said I was THE engraver. I said I AM an engraver. That is why Posted my opinion on this rifle. It is just my educated opinion as an engraver. Sorry if you misunderstood me
November 5, 2014
Offline
For Bob…
http://fega.com/memberwebpages/masterdetail.asp?recidparam=430
Martin is in a TOTALLY different league than whomever scratched up that poor M70 back in the day…
Just my take…
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
May 14, 2025
Offline
Louis Luttrell said
For Bob…
http://fega.com/memberwebpages/masterdetail.asp?recidparam=430
Martin is in a TOTALLY different league than whomever scratched up that poor M70 back in the day…
Just my take…
Lou
I think it looks amazing! A lot of Winchester engraving you have to squint to see 👀 but not this one! I have never seen Martin’s work so maybe it pales in comparison but I’ve seen and own a lot of Engraved Winchester albeit 94’s and this one is pretty impressive in my humble opinion.
August 8, 2024
Offline
Louis, I agree Martin does excellent work! Interestingly, Martin mentions that the work may have come out of Japan. So, it is very possible that a Service man may have ordered the work. Been to Germany, not Japan. So, I have no idea what the rate would of been on the dollar to the yen.
May 14, 2025
Offline
Here is Grok’s opinion on it…
This is a factory-engraved Winchester Model 70 bolt-action rifle with Ulrich-family engraving (likely George Ulrich, the last of the family to work at Winchester).
Your photos show the distinctive bold Germanic/American scroll engraving (dense acanthus-style vines on a punch-dot/stippled background) covering the receiver, with an oval medallion game scene of a bear—classic Ulrich patterns that span from 19th-century lever guns into 20th-century bolt actions. The extensive coverage on the receiver sides, tangs, and other metal parts matches documented factory special-order or exhibition-grade Model 70s.
Key Confirmation Points from Photos:
• Action details: The close-up reveals the bolt-action mechanism (bolt components visible when open), consistent with the Model 70 introduced in 1936. The spherical/knobbed bolt handle and internal parts align once you account for the angle and engraving obscuring typical outlines.
• “FIRE” marking: This appears on a visible internal component (common in Winchester actions for safety/position indicators).
• Engraving style: Identical to Ulrich work on both early lever-actions and later Model 70s—flowing scrolls + animal vignettes (bears were popular motifs). George Ulrich (active ~1919–1949) continued the family tradition on pre-’64 Model 70s, often for special orders.
Factory-engraved Model 70s are much rarer than their lever-action counterparts. Most were custom shop or special-order pieces with light-to-full scroll and game scenes. Examples include documented George Ulrich rifles with bear/deer motifs, some with gold inlays on premium Super Grade or exhibition variants.
Why It Feels Unique
You’re right—the full-coverage style with a prominent bear panel is uncommon even among engraved Model 70s (many have lighter border scrolls or smaller floorplate scenes). This level suggests a high-grade special order, possibly influenced by earlier Ulrich patterns from the 1866/1873 era.
To identify precisely:
• Share the serial number (on the receiver ring, right side forward of the ejection port).
• Barrel markings (caliber, “Winchester” address, proof marks).
• Any engraver initials (tiny “G.U.” or similar hidden in scrolls) or factory order notations.
• A Cody Firearms Museum factory letter would confirm original engraving details and cost.
This is a standout collector piece—pre-’64 Model 70s with documented Ulrich engraving command strong premiums at auction. More photos (left receiver side, floorplate, bolt, full stock) or the serial would let us match it to known examples. Beautiful rifle!
May 26, 2017
Offline
Lou, thank you for posting that link!
Mr. Rabeno that is some absolutely beautiful artwork! The bear and moose receiver is some of the nicest art I have ever seen, that fact that it’s engraved on a firearm and fully visible to enjoy, is truly wonderful.
January 20, 2023
Offline
Apparently, Gemini is full of prunes. Buck, with all due respect, I think Grok is full of something worse. I’m no expert on engraving but, if the OP’s rifle was engraved by Ulrich, then I’m Shirley Temple.
I’m familiar with Martin’s portfolio and reputation and I’ll take his word on the subject.
As I warned earlier, Gemini is frequently wrong but never in doubt. However, it was a starting point.
(Lou, I do not disagree with you.)
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
May 14, 2025
Offline
Bill Hanzel said
Lou, thank you for posting that link!
Mr. Rabeno that is some absolutely beautiful artwork! The bear and moose receiver is some of the nicest art I have ever seen, that fact that it’s engraved on a firearm and fully visible to enjoy, is truly wonderful.
I agree that is one beautiful rifle and I would wager expensive! The engraving looks a lot like the Giovanelli master pieces on some of the Commemoratives like this 25th anniversary one shown below Martin’s Centennial master piece! Thank you for sharing and appreciate getting to see Martin’s amazing work and agree he is in a different league!
November 7, 2015
Online
I was thinking German too but am not familiar with work from the land of the rising sun. Thank goodness we have an artist of Martin’s caliber to keep us straight! I think the engraving is a too heavy-handed to confuse with the works of Ulrich so maybe Grok needs to lay off the grog.
Mike
May 14, 2025
Offline
Zebulon said
Apparently, Gemini is full of prunes. Buck, with all due respect, I think Grok is full of something worse. I’m no expert on engraving but, if the OP’s rifle was engraved by Ulrich, then I’m Shirley Temple.
I’m familiar with Martin’s portfolio and reputation and I’ll take his word on the subject.
As I warned earlier, Gemini is frequently wrong but never in doubt. However, it was a starting point.
(Lou, I do not disagree with you.)
Hi Zeb, I don’t disagree at all. Grok is wrong a lot but I did find it interesting that it agreed with Gemini that the style was most likely Germanic. It also stated that it was likely the result of the Custom shop which is possible I guess? Martin certainly knows engraving though and I wouldn’t like my odds disagreeing with him any more than I would arguing Winchester history with Bert! 😳 Both would end badly for me!
February 22, 2024
Offline
Thanks for the compliments guys.
That Giovanelli rifle is pretty darn sharp though with a great inlay. I plan on being at the Greeley show next week I anyone is around stop and say hello. I have a 1876 I just finished.
November 5, 2014
Offline
I am NO (as in ZERO) expert on engraving!!! I think it’s a bit of “different strokes for different folks” as far as what style appeals…
In terms of pre-64 Winchester FACTORY M70 engraving, as far as I know there were only three possible engravers. Alden George Ulrich (chief engraver from 1925 until his stroke in 1949), John Kusmit (George’s apprentice and successor), and Nick Kusimt (who apprenticed under John)… Of those, Ulrich and JK are known engravers of pre-64 M70s. For example, Ulrich did the RCS (Russell C Smith) “Grail Guns” we wrote about in the Spring 2025 Collector magazine. He also did the two (R&R) Model 70s in the current RIA Premier auction. I checked with Pauline (whose letter is used as authentication) and she did write it…
JK also did some M70s, most notably the famous JFK rifle (s/n 500,000) that belongs to (and in) CFM, but some others as well. This rifle (one of my Dad’s) was engraved by JK (according to Pauline). It’s the number 70-5 pattern only with a gold ram on the floor plate instead of the usual 70-5 scroll. IMHO (and Pauline’s according to the letter she wrote for me) it was definitely an outside job (not a factory special order), but it is an example of JK’s ordinary low cost engraving… The JFK gun, which is done in a deeper relief like Ulrich’s style, is much closer to being in Ulrich’s league than my gun…
Martin’s work (on his worst day, if he has any bad days) makes this gun look amateurish. But for my taste, I do like Ullrich’s work…
Just my opinion,
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
February 22, 2024
Offline
There is noting wrong with the work of the Ulrich’s engravings They are masterpieces in them selves done by very prolific and talented artists. They understood the design challenges of the Winchester’s they were engraving and there works ere carefully studied for inspiration by engravers today including myself. The is no comparison to the engraved rifles in question here.
May 14, 2025
Offline
martin rabeno said
Thanks for the compliments guys.
That Giovanelli rifle is pretty darn sharp though with a great inlay. I plan on being at the Greeley show next week I anyone is around stop and say hello. I have a 1876 I just finished.
Is it for sale? 😀 Would love to see pics!!
thanks
