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Buy the story or the gun?
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June 13, 2021 - 3:02 am
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Here is your link.  https://www.gunbroker.com/item/902852019

You can’t buy the story unless there is solid documentation tying the gun to the story.

Bob

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June 13, 2021 - 3:10 am
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Thanks Bob!

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June 13, 2021 - 3:41 am
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1873man said
You can’t buy the story unless there is solid documentation tying the gun to the story.

Bob  

Prolific Collectors never lie.  Esp. when they store their stuff in barns, sheds, & even hillsides.  You don’t doubt that, do you Bob?

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June 13, 2021 - 3:57 am
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A story is only as good as the person telling it.

Bob

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June 13, 2021 - 4:31 am
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I guess I’ll have to get a letter and see what it says.

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June 13, 2021 - 5:10 am
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win1894 said
I guess I’ll have to get a letter and see what it says.  

It is not possible to letter any Model 1894 after S/N 353999.

As Bob stated, buy the gun, not the story…

Bert

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June 13, 2021 - 1:33 pm
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Bert H. said

 

As Bob stated, buy the gun, not the story…

Bert  

If you do that, you’re buying a wreck.  Even if it had been (ab)used on a reservation…so what?  Would that make it more valuable than if it had been abused by Arkansas hillbillies?  (The true story, I’d wager.)  For a gun always carried in a scabbard, it sure picked up some hard licks.

Same seller (a worthy successor to Dad’s Old Guns) also listing this masterpiece of fakery:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/903186940

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June 13, 2021 - 2:47 pm
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Well, I did buy the gun. Figured the price I paid wasn’t that bad, and I wanted another 25-35 carbine to replace the one I sold. I didn’t realize letters weren’t available for that SN range. I don’t always look for condition, but a shooter is fine for me!

I did google Larry and Clara Taylor. They check out! Spent a lot of time on the Navajo reservation in Window Rock, AZ.

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June 13, 2021 - 6:43 pm
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When or if it comes time for you to sell you’ll have a very difficult time. I don’t see a lick of Indian usage. Hope at least the bore is good.

BWink

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June 13, 2021 - 6:51 pm
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 win1894, Back in the late 80’s I stopped in that area and looked at guns and collectables. The guy lived on the east side of Hwy 63 up the hill. I got the tour he had a 32″ 73, I remember faucet knobs off the Queen Mary, and a lot of Indian stuff, most of it looked like it came out of graves. I don’t know if this is the guy, i used to fish the Spring River. Doyle Wood and JR Stewart live in that area and know the gun guys. West Plains Mo. used to have a gun show so maybe if you contact them they can give you information.

 I’ve researched guns with less info and found neat history. If this was the guy I stopped at anyone who new him will remember him. T/R

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June 13, 2021 - 7:22 pm
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Thanks TR! I talked to the seller at length today. He is a great guy! He tells me that Larry and Clara Taylor had over 500 Winchesters!

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June 13, 2021 - 7:50 pm
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BOBR94 said
When or if it comes time for you to sell you’ll have a very difficult time. 

Agreed.  This carbine is rougher than rough!

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June 13, 2021 - 8:04 pm
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BOBR94 said
I don’t see a lick of Indian usage. 

BWink  

Just wondering Bob. how would you describe “Indian usage”?

 

Methinks just because it’s not all decorated doesn’t mean an Indian didn’t use it!Wink

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June 13, 2021 - 8:36 pm
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win1894 said

Just wondering Bob. how would you describe “Indian usage”?

 

Methinks just because it’s not all decorated doesn’t mean an Indian didn’t use it!Wink  

Let’s assume an unknown Indian did use it on his reservation.  Thousands of Indians lived on reservations, & most of them beat the hell out of their possessions.  Is that more interesting or “historic” than use by an Ozark moonshiner?  Actually, I think an Ozark moonshiner provenance makes a better story.  (I once owned a property in the Ozarks on which everyone agreed there’d been a still, long gone, but with a plenty of junk & garbage to mark its place.)  Or, maybe a poor white trash share-cropper? Plenty of those in Arkie-land, too.  Guess I just don’t get the appeal of such stories even IF they can be proven to be true.

But all that’s irrelevant if you’re happy with your purchase–nothing else counts.

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June 13, 2021 - 9:16 pm
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 The condition of Indian guns depend on the tribe, location, time in history, and storage. Some have tacks, rawhide, missing parts, and some don’t. Most of the native tribes did not have a permanent residence until they were put on reservations. So if a Indian owned it, it’s a Indian gun. It’s all about the documentation.

 The guy I was talking about appeared not to have the means to own 500 guns. It’s very possible JR Stewart would know Larry Taylor, JR is a WACA member and a very nice guy. T/R

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June 13, 2021 - 10:03 pm
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Thanks TR

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June 13, 2021 - 10:16 pm
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My guess is that the seller was simply re-telling what he was told to be the truth. And it quite likely is, as it’s far from an outlandish claim. If I was going to make up a story to sell a gun in an attempt to make big dollars, I’d come up with something far better than that. It’s history’s is likely as he stated. Not every gun that has a “story” is an attempt a skullduggery. Some people just want to pass a long what they believe to be an interesting part of that gun’s life to the new owner, and it’s does of course create extra interest. But, yes, there are also those that invent and exaggerate for the almighty dollar to try to make every buck they can, Just saying that’s not always the case.

My 2 cents.

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June 13, 2021 - 10:19 pm
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 All that and I forgot to answer the question! Buy the gun, unless it has documented history, unless the “story” just interests you. But, if the latter, don’t expect others to go with the story when you need to sell. That’s when the gun has to stand up on its own feet, to be able to sell itself.

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June 13, 2021 - 11:13 pm
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It’s nice to know the story behind this gun but it adds little to the value, IMHO. Hundreds, if not thousands of guns in collections today were (and a few likely still are) used by Indians so that’s merely interesting. Since it was obviously built after the Indian Wars it was likely used just as the story says. Guns of that era were tools and Indians of that era have a reputation of not taking care of their tools. Their ancestors often discarded firearms when they ran out of ammunition. Fortunately the 1894 was designed for hard use and it served him well. OTOH the only Indian I knew well was a police officer and his weapon was always clean and well-maintained. He also showed up for work every day with a shine on his shoes. 

I like the gun, congrats on an interesting find.

 

Mike

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