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I have a 1906 dated Model 94. I acquired it from the original owners granddaughter. Her grandfather was a personal friend of John Browning. They provided documents and other provenance regarding their relationship. I acquired several firearms, including an all original Colt SAA Bisley Flattop Target model in .41 long colt. (Factory letters as nickel and ivory grips, sent to Browning Bros. in Ogden, Utah.)
The model 94 (Factory letter) is in 30 wcf. Full magazine, octagon barrel, marbles peep, crescent butt, etc. INTERESTINGLY, it has “Browning Bros Co., Ogden stamped on top of the octagon barrel. I am told that Browning often accepted guns from Winchester for retail sale at their Ogden Mercantile Store in lieu of cash payments for Patents and other services provided to Winchester.
Are there many of these samples out there? Does it add value?
Hi There Renegade; I have had a lot of ’94’s over the years and have seen many more, I have never personally seen one Browning stamped like Yours, although I’m sure there are others out there. Nice piece to have, congratulations. I don’t know about everyone else here but for Me personally, if the gun is correct, it would certainly add value to the gun, Me being primarily a ’94 collector. I would like to see more pictures of it showing a little more over all detail, receiver, stocks, barrel, sights and such. Thanks for sharing.
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
The Browning connection would definitely appeal to me; I’d like it even more if whoever applied the marking had taken a fraction of a second to get it on straight.
clarence said
The Browning connection would definitely appeal to me; I’d like it even more if whoever applied the marking had taken a fraction of a second to get it on straight.
Henry Mero said
Hi There Renegade; I have had a lot of ’94’s over the years and have seen many more, I have never personally seen one Browning stamped like Yours, although I’m sure there are others out there. Nice piece to have, congratulations. I don’t know about everyone else here but for Me personally, if the gun is correct, it would certainly add value to the gun, Me being primarily a ’94 collector. I would like to see more pictures of it showing a little more over all detail, receiver, stocks, barrel, sights and such. Thanks for sharing.
I can take and post more pictures or make a video showing the rifle from end-to-end showing both sides and top. It’s a very clean gun. They removed it from a framed “shadow box” frame when I bought it. They claim it had been in there for at least 60 years along with a Marbles Bowie knife, ammo, and the Colt pistol. The pistol is what I was really after. One of 24 ever made. Only one known to have been shipped to the Browning Brothers from the factory with Ivory Grips and Nickel Plated. It too, had been in the same case and same family. Grandfather was personal friend of Johnathon Browning. Rifle and pistol collaborate the other documentation.
Online
First thing to clear up… the serial number appears to be in the 339000+ range, which makes it a 1907 production Model 1894.
John M. Browning (and his brothers) did indeed “accept” fully assembled ready to sell firearms from Winchester in lieu of cash for payment of the many patents that Winchester purchased from John and his brothers. That stated, that practice ceased within a just a few years John severed his ties with Winchester in early 1901.
In regards to how many Winchester firearms were shipped to Odgen, that number is unknown, but based on my research, it was at least several thousand, beginning with the Model 1885 Single Shot (I have been researching & documenting the Browning marked Model 1885s for almost 40-years now), and verified nearly (500) of them thus far. In my travels, I have encountered Browning marked Winchesters in the following models; 1885, 1886, 1887, 1890, 1892, 1893, 1894, 1895, 1897, 1900, 1901, and 1902. I was acquainted with one specific collector that owned more that (400) Winchesters with the Browning marking on them (he only collected Browning marked firearms). He also educated me concerning the three different stamps that Browning used, the time period in which they were used, and the significance of the two different locations that the stamp is found.
As for the number Model 1894s with the Browning marking, I have personally see close to (100) of them over the years, and once a Little John’s auction, there were (4) of them in a single auction. My estimate is that Winchester shipped at least (500), and possibly as many as (1,000) Model 1894s to Odgen.
Now, in regards to the Model 1894 that Renegade has, it was not originally shipped to Browning as a patent payment item, and the clue to that fact is the specific location of the marking. On the patent payment firearms, the Browning Brothers marking was applied to the barrel directly behind the Winchester marking on the barrel (between the Winchester marking and the front of the rear sight). When the marking is found behind the rear sight, that indicates that the gun was sent or brought into the Browning shop for repair. The Browning Brothers shop was one of the few Winchester authorized repair shops in the western half of the country in the late part of the 19th century.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
clarence said
The Browning connection would definitely appeal to me; I’d like it even more if whoever applied the marking had taken a fraction of a second to get it on straight.
Clarence,
Keep in mind that it was a hand stamp, and was applied by the various people who worked in the Browning shop over a nearly 20-year period. Allegedly, at least some of the patent payment firearms were stamped by children of the Browning Brothers (no child labor laws in those days).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Henry Mero said
Hi There Renegade; I have had a lot of ’94’s over the years and have seen many more, I have never personally seen one Browning stamped like Yours, although I’m sure there are others out there. Nice piece to have, congratulations. I don’t know about everyone else here but for Me personally, if the gun is correct, it would certainly add value to the gun, Me being primarily a ’94 collector. I would like to see more pictures of it showing a little more over all detail, receiver, stocks, barrel, sights and such. Thanks for sharing.
Henry,
You more than likely have actually run across at least several of them, but just did not recognize them. The letter/font size used on the stamp is relatively small, and it was never deeply stamped.
I do agree with you that the marking does add value to the gun in question, as it links it directly to John Browning. I own (3) Browning marked Model 1885 rifles, and I bought two of them specifically because of the presence of the marking.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
When the marking is found behind the rear sight, that indicates that the gun was sent or brought into the Browning shop for repair.
You mean a customer’s gun merely left in the shop for repair work? It’s a “collector’s item” now, but what would you think about finding such a mark (even if it were not so carelessly applied) on your gun when you went to pick it up at your gunsmith’s shop? I wouldn’t be amused.
clarence said
Bert H. said
When the marking is found behind the rear sight, that indicates that the gun was sent or brought into the Browning shop for repair.You mean a customer’s gun merely left in the shop for repair work? It’s a “collector’s item” now, but what would you think about finding such a mark (even if it were not so carelessly applied) on your gun when you went to pick it up at your gunsmith’s shop? I wouldn’t be amused.
My thoughts exactly.
Some people say that some guns found their way to Browning’s shop and were stamped and then re sold??
I doubt that any of Browning’s customers back in those days was the slightest bit concerned about the marking stamped on the barrel… especially when all of the new firearms in their shop were marked in a similar fashion. You fellows need to consider the time frame involved… 1885 – 1902. And NO, it would not have bothered me in the slightest that the shop who sold me, or repaired my Winchester marked his name on it, especially considering he was the person who invented & patented it!
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
January 26, 2011
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I’ve run into quite a few over the years and owned an 1885, 1886, and one 1894 with the stamp. The 1885 low wall had the earlier stamp with the Ogden U.T. stamp. The only one I still have is a standard 1894 Sn. 16752 shown below…….. and yes, I paid a premium because the rifle had the stamp.
~Gary~
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