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As has been said the 56A Lyman would be correct for a 1950’s manufacture Winchester 64. The Williams Foolproof is okay but aluminum and really doesn’t look right on a model 64. A Redfield 70E is made for a Winchester 94/64 and is a high quality steel sight that looks proper on an older rifle to me anyway.
I showed the link to a Lyman 66A once in this post. Here it is again.
There are two screws that come with this sight that Lyman tells me will not fit my 1953 model 64. They say the sight will, but the screws are wrong because Lyman changed the screw pitch etc. They also said it had something to do with mine being a pistol grip???? I have no idea about that. It is their opinion that the hole placement and size is correct, just the screws are incorrect because the screws with the sight fit an old Winchester model 94, pre angle eject. I got the impression that they might not know what they are talking about. Anyone know the answer here. If the sight is correct, but screws wrong, where might one get correct screws? Thanks for help, Peter
Eagle said
I showed the link to a Lyman 66A once in this post. Here it is again.There are two screws that come with this sight that Lyman tells me will not fit my 1953 model 64. They say the sight will, but the screws are wrong because Lyman changed the screw pitch etc. They also said it had something to do with mine being a pistol grip???? I have no idea about that. It is their opinion that the hole placement and size is correct, just the screws are incorrect because the screws with the sight fit an old Winchester model 94, pre angle eject. I got the impression that they might not know what they are talking about. Anyone know the answer here. If the sight is correct, but screws wrong, where might one get correct screws? Thanks for help, Peter
Are you talking to the current people at Lyman? If you are, you are getting bum information from them. Winchester used the exact same thread size & pitch on all of their lever-actions that were factory drilled & tapped for the a receiver peep sight. The pistol grip had/has absolutely nothing to do with the screw size used for the receiver mounted peep sights. For them to suggest such nonsense tells me that they are completely ignorant of the facts.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Yes, current folks at Lyman. Their story made no sense to me either Bert, but had to check. How can folks at the factory where they build the item be so ignorant? Thanks Bert, Peter
Eagle said
Yes, current folks at Lyman. Their story made no sense to me either Bert, but had to check. How can folks at the factory where they build the item be so ignorant? Thanks Bert, Peter
Simple… none of them working there now where born yet when Winchester was still making the original Model 64 lever-action rifles! The sad fact is that Lyman has a workforce consisting of 20+ to 50+ year olds who more than likely have never seen an original Winchester Model 64, and accordingly, they have no idea how it was originally manufactured, or anything about the long-term relationship that Winchester once had with the Lyman company.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
You guys really strayed with the Model 71 stuff but it was interesting.
Back to the subject — The original Lyman was a Model 66 the A is the mounting code information. The new (current) Lyman 66A is specifically called the 66A and is an aluminum remake but specifically coded 66LA to the Model 94 pre angle eject and presumably any other guns that the original A-code fit i.e., the Marlin 336. Those intended for other model guns also have the designation code included, e.g., 66WB (1886). The new 66A(LA) looks very similar to the original 66 (A coded) except for different sighting-in adjustment knobs and having a purple-ish hue to the mount (aluminum).
The screws are all the same — maybe you were speaking to the janitor.
Your 1953 Model 64 would be correct only with the earlier all-steel version coded “A,” if it was prewar it would be more accurately mounted with the Lyman 56 or the Redfield 102. If it’s just a nice shooter — they all will fit.
Cheers,
BOB
Bob, I was told I was speaking to the head mother, but maybe the mother janitor. Thanks for the help and the laugh. Peter
Bert I know this is an old thread but do you have any images of a lyman 56w71 sight, I like many have never seen one? If no pictures can you tell us how it was marked or how to idenify one.
thanks
marlin92 said
Bert I know this is an old thread but do you have any images of a lyman 56w71 sight, I like many have never seen one? If no pictures can you tell us how it was marked or how to idenify one.thanks
Here are some pictures;
The sights are stamped “56W” on the rear facing edge of the sight base.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert thank you, you wouldn’t happen to have a close up picture of the stamping you could post? When you say rear facing edge Is it stamped like the 56A top of the rearward base saying Lyman 56W, or are you saying the long verticle edge of the base?
marlin92 said
Bert thank you, you wouldn’t happen to have a close up picture of the stamping you could post? When you say rear facing edge Is it stamped like the 56A top of the rearward base saying Lyman 56W, or are you saying the long verticle edge of the base?
I do not have a close picture of the marking, but it should be marked exactly the same as a 56A sight.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Eagle said
I am putting my 64 back together and wanted to get the peep sight that is mounted in the two small factory holes on the left side of the receiver at the top. Can I get suggestions for which site to use? Thanks in advance. Peter
Big Larry said
The very best peep for your M64 is a period correct Lyman M56. Nice sight. Big Larry
Bert H. said
Winchester used the Lyman No. 56 for most Model 64 rifles ordered with a peep sight. In the later production years, the Lyman No. 66A was used.Bert
Just to chime in here while browsing Lyman 56 versus 66, the Old Gunsights book states the Lyman 66 came out around 1955. Not to get over precise but my 1954 Winchester parts catalog only shows the Lyman 66 and doesn’t show or mention a 56, so like Bert, I’m thinking 1953 was the last year the 56 was in the Winchester catalog unless someone has a 1953 catalog showing the Lyman 66. 🤷🏻
Rick C
bobr94 said
You guys really strayed with the Model 71 stuff but it was interesting.Back to the subject — The original Lyman was a Model 66 the A is the mounting code information. The new (current) Lyman 66A is specifically called the 66A and is an aluminum remake but specifically coded 66LA to the Model 94 pre angle eject and presumably any other guns that the original A-code fit i.e., the Marlin 336. Those intended for other model guns also have the designation code included, e.g., 66WB (1886). The new 66A(LA) looks very similar to the original 66 (A coded) except for different sighting-in adjustment knobs and having a purple-ish hue to the mount (aluminum).
The screws are all the same — maybe you were speaking to the janitor.
Your 1953 Model 64 would be correct only with the earlier all-steel version coded “A,” if it was prewar it would be more accurately mounted with the Lyman 56 or the Redfield 102. If it’s just a nice shooter — they all will fit.
Cheers,
BOB
Thanks Bob for providing what the code information signifies. I had to go check my 1954 model 64 Deer Rifle that has the Lyman 56 and confirmed the markings 😅
Rick C
mike webb said
As has been said the 56A Lyman would be correct for a 1950’s manufacture Winchester 64. The Williams Foolproof is okay but aluminum and really doesn’t look right on a model 64. A Redfield 70E is made for a Winchester 94/64 and is a high quality steel sight that looks proper on an older rifle to me anyway.
I’ve owned and used several Lyman 56 receiver sights, including the one that came installed on my 1949 M64 Deer Rifle. Although that’s the receiver sight most commonly seen on Model 64 rifles made when it was a catalogued option, I really prefer the Redfield 70E-H for that rifle. The one I have I bought from Gary Fellers years ago. It’s been installed on a couple of 94 carbines and will replace the Lyman on the M64 for any hunting use. I find it easier to adjust and lock down. The E series is harder to find these days but is still usually cheaper than its contemporary Lyman.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA, amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
Any Model 64 ads I’ve seen from the 40’s & 50’s like the one below, specifically state the Lyman 56 is a factory option on 20” barrel 64 only. Bill maybe you or Bert could confirm or advise if the Lyman 56 could be ordered from Winchester on the 24” barrel or if it was a dealer installed option.
Rick C
The Lyman No. 56 was an optional (extra cost) factory installed sight on all Model 64 rifles (26″, 24″ & 20″). Based on my survey, Winchester did install a larger percentage of them on the 20″ rifles.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
RickC said
Any Model 64 ads I’ve seen from the 40’s & 50’s like the one below, specifically state the Lyman 56 is a factory option on 20” barrel 64 only. Bill maybe you or Bert could confirm or advise if 24” barrel could be ordered from Winchester with the Lyman 56 or if it was a dealer installed option.
Rick, I’ve wondered about that particular ad myself. As Bert has confirmed, the Lyman 56 was available as a special order feature on the Model 64 in both barrel lengths [and on other models as well. Even near the end of the New Haven Era, I think a customer could get the factory to inlay highway reflectors into his Model 64’s stock if he flashed enough of the long green.]
I can’t prove it but don’t think the 20″ Model 64 was very popular — WRA eliminated it well before they killed the full length M64 rifle. I also think I may know why:
I once owned a prewar short-barreled M64 that had been refinished. Sure enough, it wore a Lyman 56 but the little gun was ill-balanced and butt-heavy, to the point offhand shooting was difficult [for me, anyway] and I traded it for a minty factory nickel Model 1908 Colt 380 pocket hammerless, without regret.
I mention the foregoing because Winchester may have been stuck with too many 20″ barrels and Lyman 56 receiver sights they wanted to move. If that ad was as late as the early Fifties, the writing was on the wall for receiver sights.
Just a guess but, as fond as I am of the Model 64, the short one was a dog.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA, amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
Thanks Bert. The 56A on my 1954 Model 64 Deer Rifle sure looks original and on there since new but one never knows. Confirming it could be a factory installed option on all Model 64 rifles (26″, 24″ & 20″) at extra cost supports my thoughts on it being original to my gun. 😊
Bill I never read that before but it certainly makes sense. I found another ad in my 1939 Winchester catalog and again mentions 20” barrel for the Lyman 56.
Rick C
The 20″ barreled Model 64s are very common through the year 1950. After 1950, they are very uncommon. Thus far I have documented (460) 20″ Model 64 rifles in my research survey. Of that number, (376) are pre-War, with the remaining (76) being post-War, and just (10) found after the year 1950.
The current estimated total production for the 20″ variant is 9,350 (14% of the total Model 64 production).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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