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Auction # 523878616. Can anyone ID the big problem with this rifle? Big Larry
Can’t find that number on GB.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Well,
I can’t see a proof mark on the Receiver,
But there is one on the Barrel.
It’s a 32 W.S. not a 30 WCF,
It has checkered stocks, not, Plain, Pistol Grip, Checkered?
I guess Plain means Standard Wood. No XXX’2 marked on receiver indicating Fancy Wood.
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Are you referring to the pictures showing it is a 32 W.S. but the Cody email says it is a 30 caliber????
Also, the lower tang, buttstock and buttplate have the number 19996 stamped on them, which usually would be a serial number, but could be an assembly number. It seems to me that a 5 digit assembly number is rather high but I don’t know enough about these to guess which number it is.
Think I’ll send an inquiry to the seller as I’m interested in bidding on it.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
I believe the “Plain” refers to the wood grain, not the stock style.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
My .32-40, 239200, does not have the “NICKEL STEEL” barrel marking. Also, mine doesn’t have the receiver nor the barrel proof marks. The caliber stamp and the “Manufactured by…” stamp are on the top flat of my barrel. So, wrong barrel markings. I’m a novice at Winchester markings and such, so this is just a guess.
Just caught the proof mark on the barrel but not on the receiver. No proof mark on the receiver is consistent with a 1904 DOM. A proof mark on the barrel plus the Cody email discrepancy on calibers, indicates that this rifle has been rebarreled. With no mention of that from the Cody records my guess is someone has rebarreled it somewhere along the line, though it is a good job.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
I see the CF on the tang which on the 73’s means Case frame and the long number is more like a work order number than a assemble number. I do agree that its been rebarreled.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Online
Rifle sold for $5,665.00. Doesn’t that seem quite high since the barrel was replaced and doesn’t letter?
Nice looking gun even though the barrel has been changed out at one time.
The numbers stamped on the lower tang, buttplate, and stock are assembly numbers. I have seen several examples that have five digits appearing on the lower tang, buttstock wood, and buttplate (see below). I also compared to the numbered dies used to examples I have and they look very much the same in font and size. Only the lower tail of the “9” and upper tail of the “6” digits on the lower tang look a little different, on the examples I have the end of the “tail” extends to the outer edges of the loop and doesnt stop below the loop (if you follow)–may be nothing as Im sure many different die sets were used. The number “1” on the lower tang looks the same as other examples I have.
I have examples of the “CF” appears on the lower tang of most pistol grip deluxe or semi-deluxe rifles I have been able to take apart or view pics in 1892, 1894, and 1886, those having crescent butts have been marked with “CF”. However, I have an 1892 unchecked PG with shotgun butt that is marked “CF S” and another 1894 PG H-checked deluxe with SB marked with an “S” on the lower tang. And another letterable 1892 PG TD semi-deluxe with SB that is marked “CF”. I also have seen examples of pistol grip carbines that have the “CF C” stamped on the lower tang (assuming the C is for carbine butt which it had). I have another example of a lightweight 1894 TD unchecked PG rifle that is marked with and an assembly number followed by the letter “R” (assumed to mean rifle butt). The “CF” usage is found on 1894 examples Ive seen range from very early SN ranges to past the 800k range.
“Plain” means plain or straight grain wood.
The pics are of an 1894 that letters with plain wood stock with pistol grip, checked, is a TD short rifle, has a crescent butt. It has a 5 digit assembly number on the lower tang, buttstock, and buttplate.
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
Chris,
It appears they changed the markings from the 73 to the 94. on the 73’s R, C and M was rifle, carbine and musket, CF is case frame and SB is Swiss butt
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Could be, I dont know. I have been trying to figure out the meaning the “CF” carries or refers to on the 86, 92, and 99’s but havent had much luck–it doesnt have to do with cased frame for sure or cased levers, hammers, and the like because it occurrs well after casehardening transitioned to blued parts. It could stand for “Custom Fitting” would be my best guess.
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
Chris,
It looks like they were made with the same stamp used on the 73. Here is a pic of a 73 tang.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Sure does. Here are some others from 1892’s & 1894’s
1892 (104K SN) SB, unchecked PG. The “C” was also used on the buttplate
1894 SB Checked PG in 424K range
1894 SRC, Unchecked PG, crescent butt in 840K range
An 1894 unchecked PG SRC with carbine butt.
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
Hi Bob,
I havent looked at many 73’s in detail but was wondering if the the “CF” appears on some/all casehardened framed rifles/carbines or only ones that have fancy wood, checked wood, PG stocks, or non-standard butts?
I looked at a couple of casehardened 76 rifles last night and one (1/2 mag, crescent butt, plain wood) has only the assembly number on the lower tang, the other (26″ bbl, shotgun butt, plain wood) that has the assembly number in addition to the “CF”.
Just trying to develop a pattern or set of scenarios for why it occurs.
Chris
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
Chris,
The three 73 tangs are all straight grip plain wood case hardened rifles. Two of them have swiss butts and the other has a cresent butt. I have many other cased 73’s and they are not marked CF.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Just a quick observation… I do not believe that the “CF” indicates case colored frame. It appears much too randomly for that to be true. It sure would be nice to find some old documentation on those lower tang markings!
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert hit the nail on the head. For sure “C F” does not mean “cased frame “. I have Mod. 94 ser# 15333 in 32-40 cal. that is case colored frame , 28” oct. bbl. full mag., pist. grip, checkered, plain stock with a cres. butt,it does NOT have “C F” stamped any where. Henry
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
January 26, 2011
Offline
I’m thinking Chris’ suggestion of “custom fitting” or maybe “custom finish” would be more likely since its found on an array of different configurations. Is the pattern showing that the CF is only found on non-standard guns?
~Gary~
Gary,
Ive only seen it on non-standard 92’s and 94’s, but that doesnt mean it wont show up somewhere else (most often on pistol grip stocks or shotgun butt stocks). I havent found it on any of the 92 or 94’s having other types of special order features (short/long barrel, shorter magazines, or other). On the one example I posted a pic of above I thought it was interesting that the buttplate would be stamped with the same “C” as is found on the lower tang.
Maybe it shows up on guns or earlier models that having certain finishes (could be verified by the letter), but on the 1894 and 1892’s I have seen that are lettered, it doesnt mention anything about wood finishes.
Chris
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
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