Avatar
Please consider registering
Guest
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Register Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
Any takers on this one?
sp_NewTopic Add Topic
Avatar
Troutdale, OR
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1843
Member Since:
June 26, 2013
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
1
February 7, 2023 - 1:51 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Hmmm….You never know what might be in the box.  I would be fine buying an old sealed box of ammo (and actually have a few), but buying an old Winchester rifle “sealed in the box” is only asking for trouble in my opinion.  Hard to believe this box resisted the temptation of anyone taking a peek over the last 61 years. Could be the real deal or could be a pig in a poke.  Anyone here willing to bid and find out?

https://www.wardscollectibles.com/auction/91/viewitem.php?item=4156

Don

Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4864
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
February 7, 2023 - 2:47 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

I wonder if a heat gun would soften 60 year old tape adhesive. Of course, who can say how old that tape is? Ever had someone drive up to you in a parking lot with a sealed box that was supposed to contain a big screen TV? In my day it was top end 6X9 speakers. I’ll pass, I’ve got plenty of boxes.

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 6150
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
February 7, 2023 - 3:10 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

TXGunNut said
I wonder if a heat gun would soften 60 year old tape adhesive.

  

No, that’s gummed paper tape, the kind that was attached to a dispenser that fed the tape over a wet sponge.  But I think it’s absurd not to cut the tape; even in an unopened box, it’s possible rust could have formed if stored in a humid environment.

Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4864
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
February 7, 2023 - 3:20 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

clarence said

TXGunNut said

I wonder if a heat gun would soften 60 year old tape adhesive.

  

No, that’s gummed paper tape, the kind that was attached to a dispenser that fed the tape over a wet sponge.  But I think it’s absurd not to cut the tape; even in an unopened box, it’s possible rust could have formed if stored in a humid environment.

  

I’ve used one of those dispensers, maybe steam would loosen it. 

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1375
Member Since:
July 8, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
February 7, 2023 - 3:28 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

This and another one are on Don Groves (The Winchester Grove) web sight for $6,500 each.  I’m not sure they are authentic or not, but on every other boxed 61 end label of this era that I’ve seen, the word Trademark is under Winchester.  I sure wouldn’t pay $6,500 for a standard model 61 in the box just because it was never opened.  So what happens when a new owner opens it, the worth drops by $3,000?

Avatar
Wyoming - Gods Country
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1267
Member Since:
January 26, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
February 7, 2023 - 3:30 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Don

I was going to post the exact same thing, but you beat me to it. The answer is a big no for me. I just can’t stomach the Winchester “grab bag”. Owning something like this makes no logical sense to me. But for those that like this kind of gamble, you can buy both of them Grove has and double the mystery. To each their own. 

                                                                               ~Gary~

                                                                                                                                                                              94-SRR.jpg

Avatar
Wisconsin
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4259
Member Since:
May 2, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
February 7, 2023 - 3:37 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

A small hole and you could look it over with a borescope, even look down the bore. If the bore is not mint you know what you got.

Bob

WACA Life Member---
NRA Life Member----
Cody Firearms member since 1991
Researching the Winchester 1873's

73_86cutaway.jpg

Email: [email protected]

Avatar
Santa Clara, CA
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 786
Member Since:
January 27, 1992
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
February 7, 2023 - 5:23 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Be REAL careful when you drill a hole in the box!  Laugh   RDB

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2283
Member Since:
March 20, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
9
February 7, 2023 - 12:39 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

TXGunNut said
I wonder if a heat gun would soften 60 year old tape adhesive. Of course, who can say how 9mm that tape is? Ever had someone drive up to you in a parking lot with a sealed box that was supposed to contain a big screen TV? In my day it was top end 6X9 speakers. I’ll pass, I’ve got plenty of boxes.

 

Mike

  

That used to happen in Houston all the time!!

Michael

Signature-Pic.jpg

 

Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2283
Member Since:
March 20, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10
February 7, 2023 - 12:43 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

tionesta1 said
This and another one are on Don Groves (The Winchester Grove) web sight for $6,500 each.  I’m not sure they are authentic or not, but on every other boxed 61 end label of this era that I’ve seen, the word Trademark is under Winchester.  I sure wouldn’t pay $6,500 for a standard model 61 in the box just because it was never opened.  So what happens when a new owner opens it, the worth drops by $3,000?

  

My bet is that there is a pretty good reserve on the item and if it is not met it will be back at Grove’s.  I have seen numerous guns go from Grove to auction to Grove to auction to Grove…!

Michael

Signature-Pic.jpg

 

Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4097
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11
February 7, 2023 - 4:49 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Regarding the description of the condition of the  rifle, I loved the phase, “should be” and “maybe”

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1656
Member Since:
September 22, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12
February 7, 2023 - 5:59 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I’ll state bluntly this is plain Stupid!!!

This isn’t like an original box of ammunition from the 19th C.  It’s a box containing a firearm from several decades ago.

It would be worth more to me opened than unopened.

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 6150
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13
February 7, 2023 - 6:07 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

mrcvs said
I’ll state bluntly this is plain Stupid!!!

This isn’t like an original box of ammunition from the 19th C.  It’s a box containing a firearm from several decades ago.

It would be worth more to me opened than unopened.

  

So would it be to anyone else with a lick of common sense.  But Grove is counting on luring a fat-cat with more money than he knows what to do with looking for a “conversation piece” that nobody else has; he’s no doubt met many of them. 

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1656
Member Since:
September 22, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
14
February 7, 2023 - 7:05 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

clarence said

mrcvs said

I’ll state bluntly this is plain Stupid!!!

This isn’t like an original box of ammunition from the 19th C.  It’s a box containing a firearm from several decades ago.

It would be worth more to me opened than unopened.

  

So would it be to anyone else with a lick of common sense.  But Grove is counting on luring a fat-cat with more money than he knows what to do with looking for a “conversation piece” that nobody else has; he’s no doubt met many of them. 

  

Anyone who pays more than what the box alone is worth is a fool!  There’s no proof a rifle is even within the box.  It could be an object of similar weight equally distributed within the box, another firearm, the firearm that is supposed to be in there, but with surface rust, or worse…

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4097
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
15
February 7, 2023 - 7:59 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

The rifle of course is not an antique.  If the rifle has to go through a transfer dealer (say it is shipped to another state), I can’t imagine an FFL dealer not insisting the box be opened so he could directly verifying the serial number on the gun.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1375
Member Since:
July 8, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
16
February 7, 2023 - 9:20 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

steve004 said
The rifle of course is not an antique.  If the rifle has to go through a transfer dealer (say it is shipped to another state), I can’t imagine an FFL dealer not insisting the box be opened so he could directly verifying the serial number on the gun.

  

Exactly Steve. An FFL is not going to just trust the serial number on the box.  He will need to verify the serial number of the gun itself.

I’d sure like to know the story on these two unopened boxed 61’s.  Were they hiding in someones closet all these years? 

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2283
Member Since:
March 20, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
17
February 7, 2023 - 9:59 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

tionesta1 said

steve004 said

The rifle of course is not an antique.  If the rifle has to go through a transfer dealer (say it is shipped to another state), I can’t imagine an FFL dealer not insisting the box be opened so he could directly verifying the serial number on the gun.

  

Exactly Steve. An FFL is not going to just trust the serial number on the box.  He will need to verify the serial number of the gun itself.

I’d sure like to know the story on these two unopened boxed 61’s.  Were they hiding in someones closet all these years? 

  

Al,

And did the guy with the closet drive them to Grove’s so they didn’t go via an FFL And did he BUY them sight unseen??  Lots of weirdness here for sure.

Michael

Signature-Pic.jpg

 

Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 541
Member Since:
February 17, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
18
February 7, 2023 - 11:05 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Maybe they have been stuck in ground hog day. Just like the 86 in 50-100 that the damaged stock is suddenly like new! 

Avatar
Central Kansas
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 192
Member Since:
March 21, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
19
February 11, 2023 - 3:00 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

One solution;

a friend and I had this very similar conversation about a sealed picture box model 62A he bought several years ago. I told him I had no interest in box collecting, etc., etc. He then took it to his local vet’s clinic and had it x-rayed.

I’d say it removed any doubt about contents matching the label. He had no issues with transfer at all. Question never came up.

X-ray-model-62.jpgImage Enlarger

Darrin

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4097
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
20
February 11, 2023 - 3:45 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

Darrin Smith said
One solution;

a friend and I had this very similar conversation about a sealed picture box model 62A he bought several years ago. I told him I had no interest in box collecting, etc., etc. He then took it to his local vet’s clinic and had it x-rayed.

I’d say it removed any doubt about contents matching the label. He had no issues with transfer at all. Question never came up.

X-ray-model-62.jpgImage Enlarger

Darrin

  

This method established it was not just a piece of scrap steel.  In fact, it established it was a Winchester slide action hammer .22… but as far as amount of finish, original finish, possible pitting… I wouldn’t think the X-ray would shed light on those factors.  And I’d say those are important factors.  Even if the rifle was never out of the box, things can happen inside a box over the decades (such as the impact of some condensation/moisture).   I realize the novelty of a rifle in an unopened box has some intrigue but I would never be interested.

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 778
Currently Online: Burt Humphrey, 3Dub, deerhunter, Tony. R
Guest(s) 58
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
clarence: 6150
TXGunNut: 4864
Chuck: 4517
1873man: 4259
steve004: 4097
Big Larry: 2290
twobit: 2283
TR: 1690
mrcvs: 1656
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 17
Topics: 12499
Posts: 108509

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1727
Members: 8716
Moderators: 4
Admins: 3
Navigation