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Whats the best way to ship long guns?
September 7, 2009
5:45 pm
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BoB & Bert,

I have to go to my local Fed-X processing ctr. tomorrow or the next day, I'll specifically bring up the issue of whether or not and Antique Firearm is fully covered for the insured amount. I can't imagine there'd be a classification differance for antique firearms in that they only insure it for a modern replacement. That means they'd have to apply the same reasoning to a 19th century Chippendale or a silver tea pot that was made by Paul Revere. The last pre-98 Winchester I shipped was via Fed-X and insured for $3100.00, fully declared and described as a Winchester rifle manufactured before 1899. The clerk just wrote up the slip like any other insured package.

Bert I'm curious to know why you don't reccommend Fed-X Ground ?

This is certainly a subject (shipping methods), that needs clarification!

Regards to all,
Marty

September 7, 2009
6:19 pm
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Marty,

When ever you ship ground either UPS or Fedex its a slower shipping process and is handled by more people, more chances for it to get damaged or lost. The quicker you send it, the less chance of getting lost and the less people have to handle it.

I have a friend that works during the Christmas rush for UPS at a local sorting center unloading and loading trucks. He told me to never send anything UPS after what he saw there. Now I did read that if you insure a package for $5000 or more with UPS it gets stepped up a level in handling.

Bob

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September 7, 2009
7:30 pm
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1873man said
Thanks Bert,

Do you also insure with the USPS?

Bob

Yes, I do.

Bert

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September 7, 2009
7:39 pm
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marty said
Bert I'm curious to know why you don't reccommend Fed-X Ground ?

This is certainly a subject (shipping methods), that needs clarification!

Regards to all,
Marty

Marty,

Just as Bob pointed out, it takes way too long, and the package(s) are handled by way too many people. I have no personal grudges or problems with FEDEX, and I use them nearly 100% of the time for work related shipping, but I will not use them to ship firearms, whether they be antiques or C&R.

Chat with your procressing center, and ask them about the differences in the various FEDEX entities. Also, have them show you their regulations and requirements for shipping a firearm.

Bert

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September 8, 2009
2:24 am
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I try very hard to use USPS yes I know the tracking has a lot to be desired but of all three shippers the post office is most likley to honor there ins. cant speek on fed-ex but UPS really gave me a hosing on a NIB H&R model 12 box arrived damaged and the stock was smashed there ins. ( I paid for) denied any wrong doing there were no pre ship pictures so the court says

rafter-7

September 8, 2009
6:40 am
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Well I certainly learned something this morning! Fed-x will only insure any antique up to a value of $1000.00 and does not offer the option of purchasing additional shipping insurance.

Here's a copy of their regs from the TERMS & CONDITIONS section of their guidlines, specifically line item #4:

F. Shipments (packages or freight) containing all or part of the following items are
limited to a maximum declared value of US$1,000:

1. Artwork, including any work created or developed by the application of skill,
taste or creative talent for sale, display or collection. This includes, but is not
limited to, items (and their parts) such as paintings, drawings, vases, tapestries,
limited-edition prints, fine art, statuary, sculpture and collector’s items.
2. Film, photographic images (including photographic negatives), photographic
chromes and photographic slides.
3. Any commodity that by its inherent nature is particularly susceptible to damage
or the market value of which is particularly variable or difficult to ascertain.
4. Antiques, or any commodity that exhibits the style or fashion of a past era and
whose history, age or rarity contributes to its value. These items include, but
are not limited to, furniture, tableware and glassware.

5. Glassware, including, but not limited to, signs, mirrors, ceramics, porcelains,
china, crystal, glass, framed glass, and any other commodity with similarly
fragile qualities.
6. P lasma screens.
7. Jewelry, including, but not limited to, costume jewelry, watches and their parts,
mount gems or stones (precious or semiprecious), industrial diamonds, and
jewelry made of precious metal.
8. Furs, including, but not limited to, fur clothing, fur-trimmed clothing and fur pelts.
9. P recious metals, including, but not limited to, gold and silver bullion or dust,
precipitates, or platinum (except as an integral part of electronic machinery).
10. Stocks, bonds, cash letters or cash equivalents, including, but not limited to, food
stamps, postage stamps (not collectible), traveler’s checks, lottery tickets, money
orders, gift cards and gift certificates, prepaid calling cards (excluding those that
require a code for activation), bond coupons, and bearer bonds.
11. C ollector’s items such as sports cards, souvenirs and memorabilia. (Collector’s
coins and stamps may not be shipped. See the Prohibited Items section.)
12. Guitars and other musical instruments that are more than 20 years old, and
customized or personalized musical instruments.

UPS has proven to be a hassle unless it's FFL to FFL, now I'll have to find out what the actual regs from the USPS are, specifically those that govern firearms.

To be continued........Marty

September 8, 2009
7:38 am
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Great job Marty,

This is what I was looking for.

Bob

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September 8, 2009
8:25 am
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I would like to see Marty's last post about shipping antiques become a "sticky". Can this be done? There will always be people asking about shipping insurance, etc.

Roger

September 8, 2009
9:18 am
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Roger, I would 2nd that to make it a sticky but wait until we get more info about the other shipping companies so its all in one place.

Bob

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September 8, 2009
11:28 am
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OK....My Postmaster did what every good Goverment employee does...he referred me to look up the info on their web site....

I did and it's pretty extensive, here's the link and it seems pretty clear for the most part.

http://www.cgwgun.com/shipping/usps.aspx

While I was at it I went onto UPS's site for the same info, here's what they say:

http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/firearms.html

Any lawyers in the house?????

I also found this tidbit about insuring items and filing claims with the USPS.

USPS

Protection in Transit

Insured Mail - If you’re sending valuable merchandise through the mail, you’ll want to protect it against loss, damage or theft. You can add insurance to cover your mailing up to $5,000. Now also available at Automated Postal Centers (APCs) and Online through Click-N-Ship or eBay up to $500.

Registered Mail™ - Mailing highly valuable items, worth up to $25,000. This provides the maximum security, and online access to delivery information. Includes Proof of Mailing.

How to File Insurance Claims

Here’s how you can recover the value of your lost or damaged shipments.

If your insured shipment, whether Insurance was purchased online or at a Post Office, has been lost or damaged in transit you can request to recover the value of your articles by filing an insurance claim.

Domestic Claims

Shipments mailed domestically (to or from any address in the United States) . APO/FPO shipments included.

Depending on the type of claim, you will need to provide proof of damage, proof of loss, or partial loss of contents.

NEW: Online claims option now available for all domestic insurance claims. Visit the Online Claims FAQs.

A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. A nonlicensee may not transfer any firearm to a nonlicensed resident of another state. The Postal Service recommends that longguns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms.

I think we got it all now!

Comments and interpetations welcomed!

Marty

September 8, 2009
12:42 pm
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Hello Marty,

"Antique" handguns can indeed be shipped/mailed via USPS, as per federal regulations, they are not "handguns".

Additionally, I am fairly certain that "handguns" can be shipped/mailed by anyone returning said item to the original manufacturer for repair.

Bert

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September 8, 2009
1:22 pm
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Hi bert,

I wonder if that's the interpretation of par 11.1.5 as follows:

11.1.5 Manufacturers and Dealers

"Handguns may also be mailed between licensed manufacturers of firearms and licensed dealers of firearms in customary trade shipments, or for repairing or replacing parts."

Like I said...is there a lawyer in the house? 😕

Also;

Bert H. said

"Antique" handguns can indeed be shipped/mailed via USPS, as per federal regulations, they are not "handguns".

I know for a fact that NJ is really way out there in the respect of the above, even flintlock pistols require FFL to FFL shipment, and to add further hassles, one must have a a NJ State Firearms Permit (one time issue) and then purchase a seperate good for 90 dys. Pistol Perchase Permit' for each handgun bought and a NICS ck. thru the FFL dealer. AND, are your ready for this all you western folks, this even applies to BB Guns!!!!

Is this our future in America???? England, Canada and Australia are much more restrictive.

Regards,
Marty

September 8, 2009
1:35 pm
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Marty,

Ship all your rifles to me here in Texas and come visit them anytime!! It would be so much easier and lots less hassle.

Trying to be helpful
Twobit

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September 8, 2009
1:48 pm
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I believe that this link will prove to be the most useful, and I have to believe that the folks at Gunbroker did their research before posting this information.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Support/SupportFAQView.asp?FAQID=1118&NoCount=1

Bert

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September 8, 2009
1:57 pm
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Bert...as Johnny Carson's sidekick would say..." You Are Right Sir! " And that's what the BATF regs stipulate, BUT, I'm sure that individual STATE regulations take precedent...let's say I think I'm sure!

Lawyer's...Lawyers...where are they when you need-em!

Marty

September 8, 2009
2:08 pm
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Marty,

State regulations do take precedence as long as they do not usurp the federal regulations. In addition to New Jersey's draconian laws, several other states are not far behind. Fortunately, Washington State follows the federal regulations to the "T"... so send all of you old Winchesters to me for safe keeping 😛

Bert

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September 8, 2009
2:09 pm
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twobit said
Marty,

Ship all your rifles to me here in Texas and come visit them anytime!! It would be so much easier and lots less hassle.

Trying to be helpful
Twobit

Michael...

I spent my basic training in TX....18 wks, and a lifetime ago....I'm sure my DI is still there telling his recruits to "Drop-an-gimme-50" 🙄 ....I think I'll stay on the East Coast and just pass thru Houston Airport on my way to vist family in San Diego...in fact just 3 wks. from now I'll be doing just that.

Regards,
Marty

September 8, 2009
2:46 pm
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Bert H. said
Marty,

State regulations do take precedence as long as they do not usurp the federal regulations. In addition to New Jersey's draconian laws, several other states are not far behind. Fortunately, Washington State follows the federal regulations to the "T"... so send all of you old Winchesters to me for safe keeping 😛

Bert

Geeze Bert...between you and Michael in TX I'd have to sell most of my collection to have enough airfare just to visit the 3 or 4 remaining rifles.... Cry Marty

September 8, 2009
8:08 pm
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Marty,

Let me know when you are coming through the airport. I can come up and say hello and chat a bit. Security has t oeasier than shipping rifles into NJ.

I am serious. PM me and we can get together.
Michael

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September 8, 2009
8:49 pm
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I've been searching the web and found this on a auction site info page

USPS is a little slower, but Fedex and UPS are terrible if you have an insurance claim. Even though we pay our customers back within a working week if there is a loss, we have waited up to 6 months to recover from UPS, and Fedex denies all together if it's over $450. USPS pays in a week, no questions asked! Fedex and UPS also require "the highest premium service" for any gun item, with morning next day, adult restricted delivery, etc. and can be over $50 for a small handgun. If you don't do it, they will deny any insurance claim if you're caught.

Bob

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