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One of my local shops, Collectors Firearms in Houston, recently acquired a Model 86 ELW straight grip deluxe SN 138124. It comes with a red rubber shotgun butt. The Cody search notes "Shotgun Butt rubber". I’ve seen the red rubber before but never paid attention to them. How does one tell if a red rubber is original? Should it have the Winchester logo on it?
http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/winchester-1886-deluxe-takedown-33-wcf-w6630/#.VBWYCmPp-yE
Any insight is appreciated.
Greg
Online
I don’t think that pad is original to the gun. You can tell that it fits poorly to the back of the stock, when the factory letter says rubber butt, I think they mean hard rubber as opposed to the metal buttplate of the earlier years. I don’t think Winchester will let a high-grade gun like that go out with a poorly fit pad.
Hello Gregg,
When "Rubber" is listed in the ledgers it is referring to the common, much thinner hard black rubber butt plate with the Winchester logo on it. If "rubber" is not designated then the butt plate was smooth steel. That red thing definitely does not look original.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
Another thing with the red rubber pads is they deteriorated very quickly so if it looks in good condition it was replaced.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
If this firearm originally had a recoil pad, the "V" shaped notch at the top of the caudal aspect of the stock would not have existed. This was clearly created for the type of hard rubber buttplate that was in vogue at that time.
1873man said
Another thing with the red rubber pads is they deteriorated very quickly so if it looks in good condition it was replaced.Bob
I know of a Winchester Model 1894 that was manufactured in 1920, and the recoil pad on that one does show some age-related changes, but has not deteriorated after 94 years. Even if it is a later replacement (doubtful), it would be at least 75 years old, I should think. It does say Winchester on it.
The original Winchester Red Rubber recoil pad was patented In June of 1922. Generally speaking, you should not find one on any Winchester that was manufactured prior to that time.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Since the buttstock still has the V-shaped notch, would it be safe to assume the stock has not been cut? If so, couldn’t it be brought back to "original" condition if one swapped the ugly rubber one with an original replacement?
deerhunter said
Since the buttstock still has the V-shaped notch, would it be safe to assume the stock has not been cut? If so, couldn’t it be brought back to "original" condition if one swapped the ugly rubber one with an original replacement?
Yes, and Yes.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
It would be nice to see first hand why the wood to metal fit around the upper tang, especially the rear of the upper tang, is the way it is also.
Brad
Bert H. said
The original Winchester Red Rubber recoil pad was patented In June of 1922. Generally speaking, you should not find one on any Winchester that was manufactured prior to that time.Bert
Wow, Bert, you are correct here! I recall when I got that Winchester (really cheaply, I might add), the Winchester Book by Madis stated that it was made in 1923. The recoil pad with the 1922 date on it seemed appropriate. I think I purchased this firearm for under $200 30 years ago, and put an tang sight on it for $34 or something like that at that time. Since then, I asked for an exact date from you and you stated that serial number 925932 was produced 08 December 1920. Obviously, a replacement of a shotgun butt, but ‘fit the story’ when it was believed to have been produced in 1923.
Bert, etal,
Apparently Winchester was installing recoil pads prior to that, but not with the Winchester logo. There is an 1886 Deluxe .45-70 from the Yearout collection coming up in Julia’s Oct. 6 auction, that letters with a Silver’s recoil pad, and was shipped in 1907. (Item 2074 in Catalog 2)
I have seen the "Silvers" recoil pads listed in the records for the Model 1897 as well (pre 1908).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
The original Winchester Red Rubber recoil pad with “Trade Mark Pat. Appl’d. For”. No “patented In June of 1922”. My question is when was red rubber pad made before 1922?
Paul,
The answer is it wasn’t… at least not by Winchester. More than likely the Winchester red rubber recoil pad was available for a short time period before the June 1922 patent date, but it would not have been any earlier than sometime in 1921.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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