Avatar
Please consider registering
Guest
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Register Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
Red rubber shotgun butt on model 86
sp_NewTopic Add Topic
Avatar
Texas
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 104
Member Since:
August 5, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
September 14, 2014 - 6:35 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

One of my local shops, Collectors Firearms in Houston, recently acquired a Model 86 ELW straight grip deluxe SN 138124. It comes with a red rubber shotgun butt. The Cody search notes "Shotgun Butt rubber". I’ve seen the red rubber before but never paid attention to them. How does one tell if a red rubber is original? Should it have the Winchester logo on it?

http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/winchester-1886-deluxe-takedown-33-wcf-w6630/#.VBWYCmPp-yE

Any insight is appreciated.

Greg

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 375
Member Since:
November 9, 2008
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
September 14, 2014 - 6:55 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I don’t think that pad is original to the gun. You can tell that it fits poorly to the back of the stock, when the factory letter says rubber butt, I think they mean hard rubber as opposed to the metal buttplate of the earlier years. I don’t think Winchester will let a high-grade gun like that go out with a poorly fit pad.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2891
Member Since:
March 20, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
September 14, 2014 - 6:57 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Hello Gregg,

When "Rubber" is listed in the ledgers it is referring to the common, much thinner hard black rubber butt plate with the Winchester logo on it. If "rubber" is not designated then the butt plate was smooth steel. That red thing definitely does not look original.

Michael

Signature-Pic.jpg

 

Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

Avatar
Wisconsin
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 5326
Member Since:
May 2, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
September 14, 2014 - 7:01 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Another thing with the red rubber pads is they deteriorated very quickly so if it looks in good condition it was replaced.

Bob

WACA Life Member---
NRA Life Member----
Cody Firearms member since 1991

73_86cutaway.jpg

Email: [email protected]

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1298
Member Since:
September 22, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
September 14, 2014 - 7:23 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

If this firearm originally had a recoil pad, the "V" shaped notch at the top of the caudal aspect of the stock would not have existed. This was clearly created for the type of hard rubber buttplate that was in vogue at that time.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1298
Member Since:
September 22, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
September 14, 2014 - 7:25 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

1873man said
Another thing with the red rubber pads is they deteriorated very quickly so if it looks in good condition it was replaced.

Bob

I know of a Winchester Model 1894 that was manufactured in 1920, and the recoil pad on that one does show some age-related changes, but has not deteriorated after 94 years. Even if it is a later replacement (doubtful), it would be at least 75 years old, I should think. It does say Winchester on it.

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 13198
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
September 14, 2014 - 5:35 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

The original Winchester Red Rubber recoil pad was patented In June of 1922. Generally speaking, you should not find one on any Winchester that was manufactured prior to that time.

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Troutdale, OR
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1463
Member Since:
June 26, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
September 15, 2014 - 8:42 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Since the buttstock still has the V-shaped notch, would it be safe to assume the stock has not been cut? If so, couldn’t it be brought back to "original" condition if one swapped the ugly rubber one with an original replacement?

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 13198
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
9
September 15, 2014 - 8:54 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

deerhunter said
Since the buttstock still has the V-shaped notch, would it be safe to assume the stock has not been cut? If so, couldn’t it be brought back to "original" condition if one swapped the ugly rubber one with an original replacement?

Yes, and Yes.

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Moderator
Moderator
Forum Posts: 1171
Member Since:
December 30, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10
September 15, 2014 - 3:09 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

It would be nice to see first hand why the wood to metal fit around the upper tang, especially the rear of the upper tang, is the way it is also.

Brad

Regards

Brad Dunbar

http://1895book.com/

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1298
Member Since:
September 22, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11
September 15, 2014 - 3:36 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Bert H. said
The original Winchester Red Rubber recoil pad was patented In June of 1922. Generally speaking, you should not find one on any Winchester that was manufactured prior to that time.

Bert

Wow, Bert, you are correct here! I recall when I got that Winchester (really cheaply, I might add), the Winchester Book by Madis stated that it was made in 1923. The recoil pad with the 1922 date on it seemed appropriate. I think I purchased this firearm for under $200 30 years ago, and put an tang sight on it for $34 or something like that at that time. Since then, I asked for an exact date from you and you stated that serial number 925932 was produced 08 December 1920. Obviously, a replacement of a shotgun butt, but ‘fit the story’ when it was believed to have been produced in 1923.

Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 318
Member Since:
September 9, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12
September 16, 2014 - 10:50 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Bert, etal,
Apparently Winchester was installing recoil pads prior to that, but not with the Winchester logo. There is an 1886 Deluxe .45-70 from the Yearout collection coming up in Julia’s Oct. 6 auction, that letters with a Silver’s recoil pad, and was shipped in 1907. (Item 2074 in Catalog 2)

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 13198
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13
September 16, 2014 - 7:23 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I have seen the "Silvers" recoil pads listed in the records for the Model 1897 as well (pre 1908).

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Paul
Guest
WACA Guest
14
May 22, 2017 - 9:03 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

The original Winchester Red Rubber recoil pad with “Trade Mark Pat. Appl’d. For”. No “patented In June of 1922”. My question is when was red rubber pad made before 1922? 

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 13198
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
15
May 22, 2017 - 9:42 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Paul,

The answer is it wasn’t… at least not by Winchester. More than likely the Winchester red rubber recoil pad was available for a short time period before the June 1922 patent date, but it would not have been any earlier than sometime in 1921.

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 778
Currently Online: Rick Hill, sb, rogertherelic
Guest(s) 60
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
1873man: 5326
clarence: 4838
TXGunNut: 4069
Chuck: 3812
steve004: 3413
twobit: 2891
Maverick: 2054
JWA: 1928
Big Larry: 1879
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 16
Topics: 10902
Posts: 94050

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1513
Members: 11886
Moderators: 3
Admins: 3
Navigation