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Origional short rifle or not??
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October 17, 2013 - 10:29 am
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Hello all,

I have been trolling aound this site for the past week or so and have come across a ton of very interesting and useful information, so thank you!

This is my first Winchester rifle, I am more into modern firearms and have many of them. This is my first foray into historical firearms and now my wife is very worried that it will not stop!

Anyway, my question is this. Is this rifle an origional short rifle or not? I do have a Cody letter on it and it says nothing more than caliber, trigger and dates. So no help there. I did see the other post a month or so ago on the take down that everyone basically agree’s was not origional. However, this rifle not being a take down and a few other differences I would like everyones opinion.

First these are the things my untrained eye is assuming.

1. The stock is not origional, it’s fitment isn’t the best and apears newer than the forearm furniture.

2. The rifle has been reblued at some point in the past, not recently as the entire rifle is showing wear, blued knicks and dings are a dead giveaway.

3. I completely understand this IS NOT a collector grade firearm from what I can figure. Unless it is an origional 20" octagon barrel with a shotgun stock, which if I am correct is a rare factory set up?

4. I was not looking for a collector grade weapon, I wanted a pre-1900 shooter, which this is and that’s why I got it, plus it was cheap.

5. 100% info, 20" octagon barell; cal 30WCF; Trigger – set; SN 63087; shipped Jun 1899.

Here are photos: I tried to base the photo’s I took off of the earlier posts and requests for specific photo’s for info on this. I hope they are good enough, if not let me know and I’ll get more or of something specific.

Thank you all in advance,

Todd

[Image Can Not Be Found]

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October 17, 2013 - 10:31 am
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October 17, 2013 - 10:38 am
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Sorry I botched the photo’s, here they are.

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October 17, 2013 - 10:55 am
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I agree, the rifle has been reblued and the buttstock replaced. With no information in the factory letter to the contrary, I would assume it originally came with a standard length barrel and a stock with crescent butt. I know there were omissions in factory records, so I could be wrong on the barrel length.

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October 17, 2013 - 11:23 am
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Hello,

Definitely not an original 20 inch barrel. The front sight and magazine retaining band are not correctly placed. The butt stock is a carbine style but also is not original.

Michael

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Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

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October 17, 2013 - 11:33 am
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I was thinking that this was cut back and rebuilt for most of it. However my winchester knowledge is slim to none.

However if the barel was cut back it was at least done very well.

Like I said it’s a shooter, but I do plan on refinishing and replacing the wood so I want to take it back to as origional as possible.

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October 17, 2013 - 2:50 pm
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I would suggest try it out as is , I bet it will be just fine as is . someone has already spent money on it to make it a shooter, and got the bugs out. Any more you spend on it will not make it worth more ,so save your money for the next one

PS :Your Wife is right

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October 17, 2013 - 3:17 pm
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The one thing that you have is a Winchester with the "Extra Steel Barrel"
Marking. That is something that is not all that common, even if the barrel has been cut down.

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October 17, 2013 - 5:22 pm
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In the Extra Steel barrel rare going only what I have read for years
the barrels made of this type of steel didn’t seem to hold up very well?
I mention this only as you plan to make a shooter out of this one just
something to consider.

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October 18, 2013 - 5:35 am
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94shorties and quantrez, As this weapon has seen a lot of use I can’t really say but the chamber is just going dull with no pitting and the bore has some slight pitting and the rifling is almost gone. However it shoots great and I was holding 2-3min at 100yrds so works for me.

25-20, Yea I think she is, however I’m one of the lucky ones that my wife was Army for 10yrs and likes to shoot so I "buy her a gun" now and then :-). I also agree that I don’t need to do anything to it but I’ve worked out a few deals, I cut down a Black walnut tree in my side yard, having it milled and a local stock maker is going to do the wood for me in trade for lumber. Also have a guy who owes me a favor for blueing and I did a rifle build for him

Thank you all for the comments.

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October 18, 2013 - 5:57 am
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What would be the tell tale signs of a true short rifle? To not get into another discussion already on another post this is what I see.

End of barrel to middle of front sight dovetail = 1"

End of barrel to middle (pin) on mag band 3 1/2" – 3 3/4" is this a range or is there a set distance?

Barrels will be even number lengths ie. 18", 19", 20" etc.?

For Cody letters, is my assumption that anything "out of the ordinary" or special order is more than likely listed on them if it is factory origional? Barring any obvious human error. I ask as I simply have no experience with this and know many of you have many letters.

Is there anything beyond this? Saying that I’m sure there is a lot but simply as general referance. Reason being I do like the 20" and shorter barrels and will be looking for an origional short rifle… and the collecting begins. Ugh.

Thanks again!!

Todd

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October 18, 2013 - 6:55 am
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October 18, 2013 - 7:13 am
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Paul,

thanks that answers it!!

Appreciate it.

Todd

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