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http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=352490144
Bert and i discussed this 1894 last week,i was incorrect at first when Bert asked me what was not correct with the rifle,i said the checkering on the buttstock which is the thicker style I pattern which threw me off. but on the second try i stated the barrel address.There was an R&R in 1905 but Bert seems to feel that the barrel wasnt replaced at the Factory at that time.
and also there is no mention of the half magazine in the Cody letter and oh, the newly manufactured crate,but its still a beautiful rifle but not 13k,s worth.
John K.
I’m pretty sure that piece of barn board didn’t come as the lid to that box. Weathered nail holes that have nothing to do with the box and nice new felt. 🙄
Gobbler
Circular saw marks on these boards. Last time it was band saw chatter on the boards. Circular saw looks older, but we’ve got some lumber laying around that got cut after the 1977 storm with a circular saw too…
The shipping crate being fake, causes concern for me. If its fake, What else is?
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
Has anyone seen enough 120 year old crates to know what they should look like? Any links to some that they think are original? I would think they would be better quality, but I would think someone making and marking fake boxes would make better ones if originals really were better quality. Certainly any carpenter can make better crates than these. They really do not look like they were made to deceive.
I have to agree with wolfbait. If the crate was faked, I think it would have been better constructed. You have to keep in mind, 120 years ago they probably had to use whatever wood/materials that were available. It is not like they could run down to home depot and get a better piece of lumber. Further, the faded markings sure look like the real deal to me. I do not think that could be faked.
LeRoy Merz had an original shipping crate for sale on his web site a while back. Not sure if it’s still there or not, his web site is down for repair. Maybe he can provide the pictures of it if he still has them.
*winchester1886* said
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=352490144Bert and i discussed this 1894 last week,i was incorrect at first when Bert asked me what was not correct with the rifle,i said the checkering on the buttstock which is the thicker style I pattern which threw me off.[color=red:7507ffe340] but on the second try i stated the barrel address.There was an R&R in 1905 but Bert seems to feel that the barrel wasnt replaced at the Factory at that time.[/color:7507ffe340] and also there is no mention of the half magazine in the Cody letter oh, and the newly manufactured crate,but its still a beautiful rifle but not 13k,s worth.
John K.
Just a thought. Why would they replace a barrel after just 8 years. Based on the condition of the rifle, it could not have been shot enough to wear out a barrel but, it is the third style address so somewhere along the line it was changed.
Paul
My s/n 323976 has the 2 nd style barrel address. 11-08-1906
My s/n 373316 has the 3 rd style barrel address. 10-26-1907
This is the earliest 3 rd style address I have but maybe someone else can narrow the date down a little closer to when they made the switch.
I have a old Winchester Model 1912 shipping crate from circa 1912/1915 and it has the Winchester logo along with Info on the 1912 shotgun. They didnt use finished oak by no means. 🙂 🙂
We discussed one of the sellers other rifles with crate awhile back. In that post, mrcvs gave us two links to original crates that Winchester used I believe. Take a look at that post and scroll down to mrcvs post and take a look at them. They don’t look like what we are seeing in these auctions.
http://www.winchestercollector.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5977
I don’t see how the crates posted in these two auctions (25-35 and the 32-40) could possibly work. I don’t see any support for the gun to keep it from bouncing end to end etc. I personally think the crates are fake, and like Maverick says, what else has been tampered with. He sold the last one (the 25-35) for $6k++ and now he starts this one at double that. Not sure that’s going to work. I do see that he left the fake/wrong box label off this time though. Peter
You will also notice that although these are two separate guns with 2 different types of crates, the same wood was used for the center pieces.
I imagine he didn’t use the same end label again because someone mentioned to him that label wasn’t in use until the 1920s when Winchester and Simmons had there merger. And it might look odd on a gun being last shipped in 1905.
Another thing that is odd about the labeling on the box is the "Made in U.S.A." marking. I don’t believe at that time frame Winchester was yet if at all concerned about or was using such terms as selling points.
These are my Humble opinions.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
Just another thought about this rifle having the 3 rd style barrel address.
Maybe the whole barrel assembly was switched out for a later barrel since this is a takedown and this could also explain the 1/2 magazine that is not mentioned in the Cody letter. In BOBR94’s book, he states that the third style barrel address started with s/n 275,000 which would be Aug. 16,1905. The last R&R for this rifle was 9-25-1905 so it could have been changed during that last R&R and had the 3 rd style barrel address.
Paul
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