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January 26, 2011
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Has anyone done any surveys of the 88’s or are there any more definitive s/n cut-offs for the M88 production? I have a friend with s/n 150909 which shows 1964 per Madis numbers but I wonder about the accuracy of these tables. I told him that I really doubted the level of craftsmanship literally changed at the stroke of midnight Dec. 31st 1963. I have not seen the rifle but from his description it sounded like it had the finer cut checkering vs. the stamped you see on the later ones. I am not an 88 guy so I’m just fishing for a little more info. I own a 1961 88 in .243 that belonged to my father. It is definitely the pre-64 style quality.
~Gary~
Gary,
Cody does not have any of the Model 88 records, but Pauline Muerrle might. I do not know what the actual year ending serial numbers are for the Model 88, nor am I aware of any research surveys conducted for them.
As far as your comment about
… I really doubted the level of craftsmanship literally changed at the stroke of midnight Dec. 31st 1963
that is true in a sense, but not accurate in regards to the date. Winchester did not discontinue production on the date you mention, then restart production on January 1st, 1964 with the new tooling and materials. To give you an example, I believe that the Model 94 "pre-64" production ended in April/May of 1963, and it took many months to retool and setup production for the new "post-1963" production guns. With other models I suspect that the time frame required for the changes was shorter, but that it still took at least a few months to install the new equipment and procedures, and then train the people doing the work.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
From what I have seen the post -64 model 88’s had the impressed oak leaf "checkering" pattern as well as generally lower quality fit and finish. I always thought the 88 the nicest of the non traditional levers and it was even stocked for iron sights. 88 rifles in .358 Winchester sell like hotcakes and for considerably more than the .308 chambered 88’s up here in Canada, great moose rifles.
I have two Model 88 Winchesters, both in 308. One is a rifle 45xxx and the other a carbine in 212xxxA serial ranges. Of course the carbine has an unadorned stock, which I much prefer to the stock ‘art work’ of some Winchesters of the post 63 decade. I do agree that there is better fit and finish as demonstrated on my earlier rifle. I haven’t fired either in years but I recall the rifle being a ‘fussy feeder’ where the carbine seemed happy with anything factory (which is all I ever shot in them). Perhaps some of the production changes were actually improvements in such as feeding. Ladies or guns, ‘pretty is great’ but at the end of the day (pun intended), ‘reliability’ trumps!
My take.
January 26, 2011
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Thanks for the info, guys. I guess the question I really had was when did the changes happen when referencing the pre-64 guns. I think most people look at the available manufacture dates (whether they are accurate or not) and label the gun pre-64, or not. I look at the label as more of a transition from the earlier higher quality rifles to the post 63 changes that most folks view as lower quality. From what Bert pointed out, its possible to have a late 63 produced gun that is not the pre-64 style. As for the M88 I was asking about, I thought it might be possible that the transition was just the opposite making it possible to have a ’64 manufactured receiver in the pre-64 style.
~Gary~
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