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Is it a 1894 short rifle?
January 22, 2014
7:06 pm
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sgtsemo
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I'm still learning here and never like to assume anything this is my latest find which Jesi from CFM was able to check out for while she was on the road at the recent Vegas show.

WINCHESTER 1894, SN 2075XX
Serial number applied: 1-22-1904
Date in: 2-26-1904
Type: Rifle
Caliber: 38/55
Barrel: Octagon
Date shipped: 9-3-1904

My question is with a 22" uncut Octagon barrel with a rifle style forestock is it considered a "short rifle"? I would love to post a few photos but I don't have an outside service per the instructions.

January 22, 2014
7:10 pm
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The letter indicates a 26" rifle.

January 22, 2014
7:16 pm
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sgtsemo
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Ok so the "rifle" identification indicates 26" so if it was a "short rifle" it would say it?

January 22, 2014
7:33 pm
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For a rifle that letters as a short rifle, the letter will detail the length of the barrel. IE, 22 inch octagon barrel

January 22, 2014
7:38 pm
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This completed auction has a letter showing barrel length in it....

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=370655603

January 22, 2014
10:01 pm
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Wisconsin
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sgtsemo,

If the letter does not state a barrel length the gun is standard length for the model.

Bob

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Cody Firearms member since 1991

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Email: bob.1873man@gmail.com

January 23, 2014
4:55 pm
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Aylmer, Quebec, Canada
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Keep in mind that ledger info is not always correct nor always complete. There is that possibility, or the barrel was trimmed back or replaced.

Matt

January 23, 2014
7:39 pm
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sgtsemo
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It looks pretty good but anything could have happened in the last 110 years to the rifle. How far back from the muzzle would the Barrel band be on a regular 26" rifle and how far back for a 22". It's 4" back for this rifle.
still trying to post some photos. 🙁

January 24, 2014
4:40 am
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sgtsemo
I am in aggrement with what Matt74 posted above. Not everything shows up in letters or even on the original ledger entries.

Paul

January 24, 2014
7:42 am
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If I recall correctly (and please, someone, correct me if I am wrong), one way to test to see if a barrel has been cut back is to measure the diameter across the muzzle and compare that with what should be standard. In this case, however, the barrel would have had to have been cut back at least 4 & 1/4" in order to remove traces of the original front mag hanger dovetail.

January 24, 2014
8:05 am
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I have some photos of this rifle and this is what has come to light.
The s/n is 207599. 1-22-1904 SNA date. It should not have proofs but it does on the receiver and the barrel. The caliber stamp is on the side flat of the octagon barrel which first started to appear around s/n 380,00 or 1908. The next change in the way the caliber was stamped was about s/n 830,000 or 1916 so, if the barrel was changed, it would have been between 1908 and 1916. I feel that this rifle did go back for an R&R but was not recorded and maybe then, the barrel was changed and the proofs applied. Just my 2 cents worth.
added on 1-25-14
Received another photo of this rifle and changes some parts of the above comments. If the owner says it is OK, I will post the photos to see what other members think about this rifle.

Paul

January 25, 2014
4:16 pm
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sgtsemo
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Thanks to 94shorties for bringing the photos on to the forum, I wasn't able to get it done.
The other rifle is a 1903 Model 1894 32-40, and the carbine is a 1958 Model 94 32WS, which I put in for size comparison. I'm interested in any comments or information.

January 26, 2014
3:49 am
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The photobucket of the barrel markings shows a barrel made after 1919. Is this photo of the gun in question? Also the muzzle and crown are in much better condition than the magazine cap, indicating something is up.
Gobbler

January 26, 2014
7:12 am
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sgtsemo
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Yes that is the rifle in question. Not sure at what time across the board they dropped the 1800 and 1900 from all the model designations? I have a model 1906 s/n#379879 from May 21 1913(CFM) which is marked Model 06 on the barrel and has the normal logo without model type marked on the tang. That could be the next question I ask.

January 26, 2014
9:17 am
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Not sure at what time across the board they dropped the 1800 and 1900 from all the model designations

The "18" portion of the Model 1894 designation was eliminated at the beginning of 1920 which would be in the 896,000 SN range. The "19" was also eliminated form the Model 1906 during 1920 in the 600,000 SN range. It sounds like the barrel on your .22 may not be original to the rifle.

Michael

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Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

January 26, 2014
4:19 pm
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sgtsemo
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I was thinking the same thing, but there is no model designation on the tang Just the WINCHESTER and trademark logo with no model listed, once again if the rifles could talk. Many things could happen in 100 years. Just wish I could master the image sharing part of the site.

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