94/95 Carbine hybrid?|Page 6|Winchester Rifles|Forum|Winchester Collector

helidriver72 said
Bert, Finding that note is pretty amazing! And pretty inspiring to know theres some more out there to be found, thanks again for all the great knowledge shared in this site!
Thanks for the pics Deerhunter👍
  

I cannot take the credit for finding that note in the files at the museum (it was one of our other WACA members who found it and sent me a copy).  Yes, it would appear that there are at least another 1,213 of them out there yet to be discovered.  It is my belief that the majority of them will be found somewhere west of the Rocky Mountains.

Bert

Chuck said

deerhunter said

Chuck said
How can you tell it’s a hybrid?  What is the tell tale?
  

The most notable difference is the rifle style magazine retainer rather than the standard barrel band.  Barrels also have 1 in 10 rifling (like the 30-06) rather than the standard 1 in 12 twist for 30 WCF.  The top carbine also has a 21.5″ barrel, which is a modified 1895 musket barrel.  You may find these articles of interest.  My carbine, serial number 1025460 is featured in both articles.
https://winchestercollector.org/magazines/202103/54/
https://winchestercollector.org/magazines/201206/10/
Don
  

After looking at all of this I guess the easiest way to spot one is the front sight and the barrel band?
  

Yes, that is certainly one of the easy things to spot.  Another clue is the mismatched barrel and magazine tube length on the (203) that were made with a 21.75″ barrel length (Type-3 and Type-4).

Bert

DEEREHART said

Bert H. said

helidriver72 said
Bert, Finding that note is pretty amazing! And pretty inspiring to know theres some more out there to be found, thanks again for all the great knowledge shared in this site!
Thanks for the pics Deerhunter👍
  

I cannot take the credit for finding that note in the files at the museum (it was one of our other WACA members who found it and sent me a copy).  Yes, it would appear that there are at least another 1,213 of them out there yet to be discovered.  It is my belief that the majority of them will be found somewhere west of the Rocky Mountains.
Bert
  

Bert 
 Could you expound on your suspicion that most of them came to the western US.
 Doug
  

It was Art Gogan who first brought them to light and began surveying them.  At the time, Art was living in Oregon, and he was finding them there locally and at the western gun shows.  In my continued research, the majority of them have been found on the west side of the Rocky Mountains.  

In response to Doug’s last post, these are my thoughts & theories on the 94/95 Hybrids.

First, while Art’s survey was primarily confined to the western part of the U.S., my continued survey of them is not.  I have the benefit of “www” (internet), and all of the many digital auction catalogs that I continually receive and comb through. Further, through this website and my known research efforts, I have collaborated with a substantial number of collectors spread across the county that routinely contact me with new information.

One of the primary reasons why I believe that most of the hybrids were shipped and sold in the western marketplace is the fact that all (100%) of the 94/95 hybrids found thus far are Saddle Ring Carbines.  By the late 1920s (1927 and beyond), Winchester had begun routine production (batches) of what we refer to as “Eastern” carbines. By the year 1929, more than 50% of the total Model 94 carbine production was “Eastern” Carbines.  The SRC variation was still being manufactured but they were primarily shipped and sold in the western part of the country.  Simply stated, SRCs had fallen out of favor in the eastern & midwestern parts of the country.

As of today, the majority of the 94/95 hybrids have been located and documented in the western half of the U.S.  Sure, there are some that have been discovered in the east, but they most likely migrated there through the activities of the collecting community and the auction houses.

Bert

Tony,

Currently, I have documented (92) of the (1,303) Model 94/95 hybrids that were most likely manufactured.  Based on the serial numbers and their associated PR dates, I believe that Winchester assembled all of them very late in the year 1928.  As of now, all (92) found thus far have a 1928 PR date, with the vast majority of them in the late May to early October time period.  The tables below are a snap-shot of my current Excel survey file.

Bert

Tony,

Other than the PR records, there are no surviving records beyond May 1907.

Per the PR records, Winchester serialized 25,912 Model 94 receiver frames in the year 1928 (several thousand of which were assembled as Model 55 rifles). Per my extrapolation table (derived from the current survey totals), of the 25,912 total Model 94 & 55 guns manufactured in the year 1928, Model 94 Carbines made up 17,383 (67%) of the total production.

Thus far, I have surveyed & documented 793 (3.06%) of the 25,912 total rifles & carbines manufactured in the year 1928 (see the table below).  Of that total, 638 are Model 94s, with 532 of them being Carbines, 92 of which are 94/95 Hybrids.  

Bert

Anthony said
Bert,
Thanks for the extra explanation, as I surly do value that as I’m sure others will!
 
Tony
  

You (and everyone else) are welcome.

As you can most likely tell, I and a “numbers” person.  I have at least 700+ active Excel spreadsheets on my PC, and I add at least a couple more every month.  Some of my Spreadsheets are nearing 30-years old (upgraded of course through the years).  I first began actively creating and using Excel when Office 97 first hit the streets.  In the early years, all formulas had to be manually created (programmed) and inserted.  To this day, I still write all of my own formulas even though Excel now has a few hundred of them built-in.

Bert