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500grs 45-70 round head in 1886?
November 21, 2020
11:29 am
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Hi everybody, 

I do have a reprint of the Winchester catalogue of 1894. So great Info there, but one thing really puzzles me:

The 500gr government cartridge of the .45-70, round head is advertised as being suitable for the 1886 model!

Wasn't that an invitation for a lawsuit? Round bullets in a mag tube???! 🤨 

I have found pictures of the vintage 405grs version with flat heads, but not with the 500grs. 

So what was Winchester thinking? 

Where there flat heads of the 500grs at all existent? 

Can anybody help? 

Thank you very much!! 

November 21, 2020
1:10 pm
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F.K.-

It was a different time, apparently they didn’t see it as a problem. Nowadays, regardless of the actual risk, almost no one will go on record condoning the practice of anything but a flat point bullet in a tubular magazine. Times have changed, physics haven’t.

 

Mike

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November 21, 2020
1:40 pm
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I wonder if it is because there are flat bullets, round bullets and pointed bullets.  For example, some .30-30 bullets are round vs. flat.  A lot of .35 Remington ammunition bullets are round - and get used in Marlin M336's.

November 21, 2020
2:17 pm
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I got my 86 in 1959 and then could get government surplus 45-70-500 round nose for $2 a box (10 cents a round).  I shot many in my rifle. I think they were from trapdoor days. I think might still have some of the brass. Don

November 21, 2020
3:55 pm
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meanderman@boldnet.net said
I got my 86 in 1959 and then could get government surplus 45-70-500 round nose for $2 a box (10 cents a round).  I shot many in my rifle. I think they were from trapdoor days. I think might still have some of the brass. Don  

Don -

I wonder how similar the rate of twist was in your '86 vs. the Trapdoor Springfield?  Do you recall how accurate the 500's were in your '86?  I suppose Winchester matched the rate of twist up to 400 grain bullets in the '86?

November 21, 2020
9:22 pm
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I was 20 years old then and paid scant little attention to accuracy. Just went to my brothers farm and shot at most anything out in the fields. Don

November 21, 2020
10:28 pm
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About the only thing that I know of about round nose bullets and magazine guns is that the problem was supposedly solved not long after the 1878 military trials concerning the 45-70 cartridge and large Berdan primers.

Hope this helps.

James

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