30-30 Winchester 1894 Buffalo Bill Commerative 25\" |Winchester Rifles|Forum|Winchester Collector

Good evening from Texas, Jeremy. Always good to hear from kiwi land.  To some extent the potential accuracy of any 1894 depends on the original quality and current condition of the individual barrel.  However, as far as mechanical integrity and potential accuracy of the various post-1963 commemorative 1894 rifles and carbines, I’m not aware of any difference between those and the standard post-63 carbines. 

I believe the BBC was marketed by Winchester in 1968. As you probably know, Olin-Mathieson Chemical Corporation, which then owned the Winchester gunmaking operation and operated it as its Winchester-Western Division, in a desperate attempt to improve sales and profitability about 1962 brought in new management, executives largely from the Ford Motor Company, upon the advice of Robert McNamara, the then Secretary of Defense.  They drafted and carried out a series of design and manufacturing changes to the Winchester line of guns, the most radical of which affected the Model 70 and Model 94. 

The new Model 94 introduced in 1964 was close to the physical appearance of the previous Pre-64 carbine but not identical. The most notable differences were that the receiver was no longer milled from bar stock but made using the sintered steel (powdered steel heated and compressed to a liquid and then solid state in a complex die.)  The resulting heat treated and accurately dimensioned receiver would not take a hot salts blue so the factory plated it with black chrome. Roll pins were substituted for screws and action tolerances were relaxed somewhat, and the cartridge feeding plate in the right receiver wall was changed to a stamped flat piece from a milled piece. 

However, barrels were for the very first time hammer forged, which improved potential accuracy. 

The above changes were largely cosmetic and the resulting Model 94 carbines were perfectly sound and probably more accurate shooters. However, Winchester customers were outraged at the apparent “cheapening” of the product — although it was the new Model 70 that bore the brunt of the outrage because it was so ugly. 

By 1968, most of the cosmetic deficiencies of both the Model 70 and 94 had been ameliorated. By 1992, CNC precision manufacturing enabled a return to machined parts and cut-checkered stocks. 

My point is, the model rifle you are interested in was well made and likely as accurate as the average Winchester Model 94, assuming the particular rifle has been well cared for and not abused. My own experience with Models 94 and 64 of various vintages is that I could out of the box expect groups of between 2.5 and 3 inches at 100 yards, from a benchrest, using factory ammunition and without tinkering with the gun. I can’t prove it but I would bet pocket change the Model 1894 production of, say, 1895, would do about the same.  

It’s my personal opinion the rifle version of the Model 94, which does not employ a barrel band, is more potentially accurate, particularly if the magazine tube attachment to the underside of the barrel is not overtightened. Like you, I prefer the 24″ barrel, especially in octagon form. If you are not a hunter it doesn’t matter, but the .30 Winchester develops its published velocities with a 24″ barrel. There is a material loss of velocity with the carbine length barrel, insignificant to a Whitetail deer shot at 40 yards, but further out, the flatter trajectory offered by the longer rifle barrel makes accurate shot placement easier. 

I have not tried to discuss value. The man I know who knows the most about the Winchester commemorative market, in fine grained detail, is our own WACA member Henry Mero, to whose advice and counsel I commend you. 

I can look up the weight of that or a similar commemorative in a Gun Digest of that year. I’ll get back to you.

I looked at the listing and at other listing’s on that site. Are the prices in NZ currency or U.S. Dollars?

Jeremy, I have one just like in your picture that my parents gave me for my birthday in 1970. I gave it to my daughter for her 13th birthday. I haven’t shot it in years, but it was always a great shooter & handled like any of my other 1894 rifles. I guess that I need to get it & my daughter (she has been busy with kids) out again & play with it. Your post has made me realize that I have been ignoring it.  Bill 

Jeremy, from what little  I’ve seen of the NZ market, the price quoted is probably a little high but not outrageous if in the condition represented. If the original carton and literature is included, the price is not unrealistic. Just my opinion. From what I’ve seen here, you could get a used, excellent condition BBC for about a thousand USD. For example, see https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1091939416.

If you wanted a new, long-barreled lever action rifle, there aren’t a lot of alternatives even here in America. But there are some still being made:  The current Winchester Model 94 being made by Miroku for Browning is made in rifle form.  You can check the online catalog at winchesterguns.com.  These are of very high quality but I don’t know if they are imported there. There are long-barreled Marlins as well, although they are being currently made only in carbine form presently. I know almost nothing about the American Henry rifle line. The various Italian and Japanese reproduction Model 1894 guns are made in rifle form, again I’m not sure how available they are. 

As for weight, the Buffalo Bill commemorative rifle, which has a 24″ octagon barrel with full length magazine, should weigh about  8 to 8.25 U.S. pounds. 

For comparison, the standard Winchester Model 94 carbine with lighter weight 20″ round barrel and full length magazine, as once made in New Haven,  weighs about 6.25 pounds.

The discontinued Model 64 rifle,  essentially a Model 94 with pistol gripped stock, which has a 24″ lightweight round barrel and partial length magazine, weighs about 7 to 7.25 pounds. 

All these guns assume a .30 Winchester chambering.

I hope this helps, a little. 

Jeremy, I dug my daughters out & snapped a couple of pics for you. I never thought about it before, but it has a 20″ barrel. Bill 

Jeremy Miles said
Hi Guys

Firstly to Zebulon. Yes, that info really helps. Here are links to some Miroku 1894’s, they look nice but they seem very pricey! 

https://www.guncity.com/3030-winchester-94-deluxe-short-walnut-20-colour-case-finish-388977

https://www.guncity.com/3030-winchester-94-deluxe-sporting-24-397783

I do have an 1873 made by Miroku, functions very smoothly but to me feels a bit like a ‘toy’! 

 

  

Jeremy, 

I’m pleased to see FN Herstal is marketing Down Under. The 1873 models are the closest in manufacture to the 19th Century original guns.

If you blindfolded someone experienced with, say, a mint condition Third Model 1873 .44 Winchester made in 1915, and allowed him to handle the currently manufactured Miroku Winchester 1873 in the same caliber, it would be very difficult for him to realize he didn’t have the 1915 gun in his hands, unless he were astute enough to trace out the different barrel rollmarks with sensitive fingers. 

Unlike the currently made 1886, 1892, and 1894 Winchesters, the 1873 line are not equipped with either a tang safety button or a rebounding hammer. They are functionally identical to the originals. At least, that is my judgement.   I own two of them, a rifle and a carbine, and have handled numerous 19th Century examples, in addition to the various Italian and Japanese clones.

The manufacturing and materials quality of the current Winchesters is at least as good as any [standard models] ever made in New Haven that I have seen. Yes, they are relatively expensive in America as well but there is a reason for it. The same was true for most Winchesters made before about 1962. 

If you are set on the Buffalo Bill commemorative and still feel that way after you’ve seen and examined it, do as my friend Jeremy P. says and take it home.  

If you decide to pass on it, I have a more expensive suggestion that might be worth saving for, assuming ammunition or loading components availability:  the currently manufactured Winchester 1886 in .45/70 caliber, one with the octagon or half-octagon 24 inch barrel.  These do come with tang safety and rebounding hammer but they are a true joy at the target range, assuming you know how to deal with a full crescent buttplate. The full octagon version weighs right at 9 U.S. pounds a good deal of which lies up front. They are superb for shooting offhand.  The left receiver wall is drilled and tapped for a receiver sight.  Lyman 56W originals are expensive collector items but the more available 56A or the equivalent Redfield 70-E will work. And Williams still makes the excellent, if unhistoric, aluminum FP71. 

Here’s the best WACA philosophy:  Get both rifles. 

And we do expect a range report.o

I don’t think you can go wrong with either an Uberti (or similar import) or the Miroku. I think they’re both built well and feel substantial, although different than old classics…in fact, if it’s your everyday or an only/utility rifle, that’s the way I’d go.

For what it’s worth, I have a 26″ BBC rifle and it shoots great! Have a great trigger too. I like having a (relatively speaking) new rifle without the rebounding hammer and lawyer crap in a full length barrel. Shoot my Chief Crazy Horse 38-55 too!