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30" barreled model 1894
June 9, 2013
2:16 pm
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On GB. Is this rifle really that rare?
model 1894, semi deluxe 38-55 with 30" barrel. Letter. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=344502701

June 9, 2013
2:45 pm
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The longer then standard barrels in the 1894 are hardest to find, they were only offered in 32-40 and 38-55, and they no longer listed them around 1908. That one has PG stock also, nice! There not rare, but a hard to find extra!

June 9, 2013
4:56 pm
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Here is another 30" barreled 1894 from GB. He says he has a letter on it. It is a 30 WCF? ARMAX list 338 rifles with 30" barrels but no breakdown as to caliber.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=344811341

Paul

June 9, 2013
5:56 pm
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94shorties said
Here is another 30" barreled 1894 from GB. He says he has a letter on it. It is a 30 WCF? ARMAX list 338 rifles with 30" barrels but no breakdown as to caliber.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=344811341

Paul

Paul,
Something doesn't smell right with that one! The mag ring, looks funny, barrel looks reblued, the sights, the upper tang looks polished, to many iffys! I'd like to see his letter

June 9, 2013
7:37 pm
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That second rifle looks good to me, other than the rear sight. But, as previously said, the longer barrels were only offered in .32-40 and .38-55. If Winchester did make a .30wcf on special order it is a scarce gun. The factory letter should tell the story.

June 10, 2013
4:47 am
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The first one given the checkered pistol grip stock seems to be a whole lot more rare, and looks all original to me.

June 10, 2013
5:42 am
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The same information about barrels over 28" only being available in 32-40 or 38-55 was in both the Madis book and the Renneberg book. I just added this post to go along with the other 30" barreled 94. I seem to remember that RIA also had a 30" 94 in 30 WCF not long ago. Could the information be wrong and they are out there in 30 WCF or, is someone putting these rifles together with non Winchester barrels? 😕

Paul

June 10, 2013
5:47 am
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Kinda curious about the statement that 30 inch BBL 94s were only offered in 32-40 and 38-55. What are you gentlement referencing?

V/R

Mike

June 10, 2013
6:07 am
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Mike,

Madis wrote that in at least two of his books (the big book, and in the "Handbook"). I know for a fact that it is not true. I have personally seen more 30+ inch barreled Model 1894s in 30 WCF than I have for the 32-40 and 38-55 combined.

Bert

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June 10, 2013
6:10 am
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Mike:
Just referring to statements in these 2 books.
Please read my entire post. I question if the data is correct.

The same information about barrels over 28" only being available in 32-40 or 38-55 was in both the Madis book and the Renneberg book

Renneberg book on page 51 and Madis book on page 429

Paul

June 10, 2013
6:22 am
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In the 1900 catalog, "guns chambered in 32-40 and 38-55 can be furnished with barrels up to 36" in length. Barrels chambered for 25-35 or .30 win cartridges cannot be furnished over 26" in length"
That said you could find most anything, uncataloged.

June 10, 2013
7:11 am
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Paul
Looks like you and I posted about the same time so I did not get a chance to read your post.

I will admit all the 30 inch bbl 94 that I have seen/owned have been in 38-55, but I cannot come up with a reason that Winchester would not offer them in 30 WCF.

I know Madis’s work is 50+ years old, so it is a bit dated, and done long before the ARMAX study/report came out. I believe Renneberg relied heavily on Madis for some of his info.

"In the 1900 catalog, "guns chambered in 32-40 and 38-55 can be furnished with barrels up to 36" in length. Barrels chambered for 25-35 or .30 win cartridges cannot be furnished over 26" in length"
That said you could find most anything, uncataloged."

I know I have a couple of 28 inch, 30 WCF barrels out in the shop, so that may have bee a general policy and not a hard and fast rule.

V/R

Mike

June 10, 2013
7:21 am
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There are antique examples of a 28" bbl. in .38-55 and 30" bbl. in .32-40 in my 1894 sight study under 1894-1899 if anyone is interested.

Brad

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Brad Dunbar

http://1895book.com/

June 10, 2013
8:29 am
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I,m sure some of you know that is my 1894 for sale,i actually purchased it to keep for my collection but i normally only collect Winchesters in 90% plus condition.So after looking at the rifle for a few days i decided to sell it.Also after reading the Armax ratios on pistol grip 1894,s is 1 of 25 and checked stocks 1 of 34 which is around 3%-4%,so there might be less than 15 pistol gripped 1894 with a 30 inch barrel length but i imagine if someone would order a 1894 with a longer than standard barrel there might be a greater tendency to order their 1894 with a pistol grip stock;not sure.
Even the seller told me that longer than standard barrels only come in 32/40 and 38/55 and i thought i confirmed this with Robert,s reference book which i now know is incorrect.
Where the longer than standard barrel ever round or half oct?

John K

June 10, 2013
10:38 am
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94shorties said
Here is another 30" barreled 1894 from GB. He says he has a letter on it. It is a 30 WCF? ARMAX list 338 rifles with 30" barrels but no breakdown as to caliber.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=344811341

Paul

Added at 1:40 PM___( there seems to be a 1 hour difference between my actual time and the time shown on the forum ) I am using GMT of -5 hours and it worked before the time switch to daylight savings time.

I just sent a request to the seller of this other 30" 1894 to see if he would post the letter that he says he has or supply the s/n so I could check it out. Will report in on what he does or says.

Added 4:10 PM___ Seller sent me the s/n which is 125354 which should be approx. Oct of 1901. Will send for info from Cody.

Paul

Added 6-12-13
A s/n search for this other "30 inch 1894 " is below. Does not show a 30" barrel.

http://s1224.photobucket.com/user/oldguy67/media/1894%20others/002_zpsa9173127.jpg.html

[Image Can Not Be Found]

June 12, 2013
6:14 am
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Went back and really looked at the photos of this other 30" 94 and it looks like a normal 26" rifle to me. Did some ratio calculations from photos of this rifle and compared them to John K's 30" rifle that does letter and got the following. ( note: numbers won't be exact because of distortions in the photos and printing but, close enough for Govt. work. )

John K's 1894 29.46"

other 1894 25.50"

Paul

June 12, 2013
7:41 am
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Paul,

Thanks for following up. It's good to know that beginning collectors like me have such great Winchester experts on this forum to help us out. Also, I noticed that John K's gun sold on GunBroker for $6,020, with 71 bids! congratulations John.

Al

June 12, 2013
8:20 am
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94shorties said
Went back and really looked at the photos of this other 30" 94 and it looks like a normal 26" rifle to me. Did some ratio calculations from photos of this rifle and compared them to John K's 30" rifle that does letter and got the following. ( note: numbers won't be exact because of distortions in the photos and printing but, close enough for Govt. work. )

John K's 1894 29.46"

other 1894 25.50"

Paul

http://s1226.photobucket.com/user/hurint/media/Untitled1_zps14ff5e10.jpg.html

[Image Can Not Be Found]

Bottom gun has a 30" barrel in comparison to the gun you are mentioning.

John K: That's a cool looking rifle you sold there.

Brad

Regards

Brad Dunbar

http://1895book.com/

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