Avatar
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
25-35..... who was the target market for this cartridge?
sp_NewTopic Add Topic
Avatar
Texas
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 291
Member Since:
January 20, 2023
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
21
March 22, 2024 - 3:07 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I believe The 25-35 was introduced  simultaneously with the .30 WCF in 1895, the first two smokeless cartridges to be chambered in the Winchester Model 1894. Velocity was surely on the company’s mind at the time. 

The 25-35 must have been sufficiently popular to induce Remington to create its rimless competitor, the 25 Remington Rimless, in 1906, as part of a series of cartridges for the Browning-designed automatic and Pederson-designed pump. All but the .35 Remington were based on a rimless version of the case designed by Winchester for its two new smokeless cartridges. 

For whatever else these early .25 caliber rounds may have been intended, our most famous Texas Ranger employed one against the “most dangerous game” in South Texas. Ranger Captain Frank Hamer’s first “pear burner” was a 1908 Remington automatic chambered in .25 Remington, especially modified to accept a detachable extended magazine. This same rifle was later loaned to and used by a brother officer in the killing of Clyde Barrow and Bonnie Parker. 

- Bill 

 

WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist

"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.

Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 5197
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
22
March 22, 2024 - 3:29 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

About 40 years ago in Jim Wilson’s gun shop (Pierce’s) in Denton, Texas I was sorely tempted by a Model 70 in 25-06 and have been an admirer of the 25 caliber ever since. Other than the 257 Roberts none have lived up to their potential, IMHO but I’ll always be interested in them because I like something a little off the beaten path. Someday I’ll have a 25-35, but not because I want to shoot deer, coyotes or gophers with it. I just want to shoot it. 

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 10986
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
23
March 22, 2024 - 3:47 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Zebulon said
I believe The 25-35 was introduced  simultaneously with the .30 WCF in 1895, the first two smokeless cartridges to be chambered in the Winchester Model 1894. Velocity was surely on the company’s mind at the time.   

Not quite simultaneously, but close.  The 30 W.C.F. was introduced in May 1895, and the 25-35 W.C.F. followed it in August 1895, and then the 32 W.S. in October 1901.

Bert

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Texas
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 291
Member Since:
January 20, 2023
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
24
March 22, 2024 - 3:53 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Bert H. said

Zebulon said

I believe The 25-35 was introduced  simultaneously with the .30 WCF in 1895, the first two smokeless cartridges to be chambered in the Winchester Model 1894. Velocity was surely on the company’s mind at the time.   

Not quite simultaneously, but close.  The 30 W.C.F. was introduced in May 1895, and the 25-35 W.C.F. followed it in August 1895, and then the 32 W.S. in October 1901.

Bert

  

D’accord. 

- Bill 

 

WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist

"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.

Avatar
Texas
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 291
Member Since:
January 20, 2023
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
25
March 22, 2024 - 4:02 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

TXGunNut said
About 40 years ago in Jim Wilson’s gun shop (Pierce’s) in Denton, Texas I was sorely tempted by a Model 70 in 25-06 and have been an admirer of the 25 caliber ever since. Other than the 257 Roberts none have lived up to their potential, IMHO but I’ll always be interested in them because I like something a little off the beaten path. Someday I’ll have a 25-35, but not because I want to shoot deer, coyotes or gophers with it. I just want to shoot it. 

 

Mike

  

Is that Jim Wilson the one who moved to the Big  Bend and started writing gun articles?

- Bill 

 

WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist

"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.

Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 5197
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
26
March 22, 2024 - 4:14 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Zebulon said

TXGunNut said

About 40 years ago in Jim Wilson’s gun shop (Pierce’s) in Denton, Texas I was sorely tempted by a Model 70 in 25-06 and have been an admirer of the 25 caliber ever since. Other than the 257 Roberts none have lived up to their potential, IMHO but I’ll always be interested in them because I like something a little off the beaten path. Someday I’ll have a 25-35, but not because I want to shoot deer, coyotes or gophers with it. I just want to shoot it. 

 

Mike

  

Is that Jim Wilson the one who moved to the Big  Bend and started writing gun articles?

  

Jim was actually writing articles when he lived and worked in Denton, not aware of any that were published before he was elected sheriff. Jim is a very well-read fan and amateur historian of the “old west” and Texas Rangers. His historical articles are very well researched and quite entertaining to read.

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 40
Member Since:
September 3, 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
27
March 22, 2024 - 8:29 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Well, I have a box of Hornady 25-35 Lever Revolution 110 grain FTX  and the velocity printed on the box is 2425 fps.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4344
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
28
March 22, 2024 - 3:30 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I think the original question here is an interesting one.  I need to shift out of my usual perspective – which is a collector’s perspective.  The .25-35 has interested me because of the enhanced collector status.  I’ve owned several, but never acquired one because of small game hunting needs.  In fact, I never fired any of my .25-35’s on an animal.

The .25-35 is a lighter recoiling round with a lighter report.  My appreciation for lighter recoiling rifles has grown significantly as I’ve aged. I can see for small game, it is the better choice than the larger calibers such as .30 WCF.  The .25-35 was also a cross-over piece as it straddled both small game and medium game such as deer (at closer range).  It performed this cross-over function much better than cartridges such as the .25-20. It’s also a good, “farm family gun” as the wife and youngsters could manage it easier.  

  

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4344
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
29
March 22, 2024 - 3:50 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Thinking more about this, back in the day (i.e. at the time of it’s introduction) a whole lot more people lived rurally.  Small farms were very common.  Aside from the annual deer hunt, the main need for a rifle was for fox, coyote, coons, skunk, badger, porcupine and the like. I could see the .25-35 working out for all these needs.  One cross-over centerfire rifle, a shotgun and a .22 would do it. And for many farms, that’s about all they had.  Add a .30-06 and you would be ready to cover anything on this continent.  

Avatar
Star ID
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 91
Member Since:
March 3, 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
30
March 22, 2024 - 4:41 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

This turned out to be a very interesting discussion.

I like the caliber, and have three guns chambered for it – two carbines and a rifle. As I mentioned earlier, I’ve used the rifle to shoot pigs in Texas, but the 25-35 does not have the oomph to reliably knock down the rams in metallic silhouette. My two carbines are for my collection, and shooting for fun. I would be comfortable using them for hunting Whitetail in river bottom thickets – I think it would be a good choice in that capacity.

I posed the original question, because I was thinking back to the origin date of the 25-35 and the 30-30. If I were a rancher/farmer back then, I would probably have opted for a 30-30 as an “all-rounder”……  hence my original query about who the target audience might be.

The ensuing discussion has been quite interesting as well as illuminating.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4344
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
31
March 22, 2024 - 6:03 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

It’s fun to speculate about who the target audience was.  We may or may not be on track.  It would be fascinating to see a transcript of the original Winchester management discussion.  Just what was said?  Did for example, someone suggest that the light recoil would appeal to women and perhaps farmers would order one for their wife?  

I’ve made a similar speculation about the Winchester management discussion that resulted in the decision to add the .300 Savage to the Model 70 line.  Maybe someone around that table had the foresight to say something to the effect of, “50 years from now collectors will love these as we’re not going to sell very many.”  Yell

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 778
Currently Online:
Guest(s) 80
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
clarence: 6527
TXGunNut: 5197
Chuck: 4679
steve004: 4344
1873man: 4330
Big Larry: 2359
twobit: 2323
mrcvs: 1773
TR: 1732
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 17
Topics: 12931
Posts: 112789

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1793
Members: 8941
Moderators: 4
Admins: 3
Navigation