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November 7, 2015
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Welcome, John! What is this “Glock” you speak of? Some sort of timepiece? 
TxGunNut,
I’m not sure if it is a time peace or not? Was it Glock or clock? I can’t remember!!! 😉
Anyway thanks for the welcome!
John
Hi John and welcome to the group. In regards to the two proof marks on the barrel of your rifle, are they both the same, the circle W/P, or is that hard to tell because of the hole drilled through one of them? Could be the one with the hole drilled through it was a Circle P proof. Peter
Eagle,
I just took a look with a magnifier glass. The two stamps on the barrel are identical to each other. And they are identical to the one stamped on the receiver ring. All of the stamps are an oval circle containing a capital W as well as a P. According to my George Madis book, this is the Winchester Proof Mark. Supposedly these were applied after the gun was fired with proof loads. Not sure what a Circle P proof looks like.
I guess I should join so I can post photos.
hope this helps
John
Good idea John!! Lots of good things go on here…two great magazines per year with lots of pictures and well written articles, plus a calendar with excellent photos of old Winchesters, plus this forum, and yes you can post pictures easily. We’re waiting to welcome you as a member! Peter
Eagle said
Good idea John!! Lots of good things go on here…two great magazines per year with lots of pictures and well written articles, plus a calendar with excellent photos of old Winchesters, plus this forum, and yes you can post pictures easily. We’re waiting to welcome you as a member! Peter
Four magazines per year, Spring, Summer, Fall, and Winter editions.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
O my gosh John!! All the more reason to join us. Why did I think there were only two anyway? I’m looking forward to seeing pictures of your proof marks. Peter
You can post pictures as a guest but you have to use a third party host site or you join and then its just a simple upload.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Yea John!! 
and good job with the photos. That is very interesting. I have never seen on that was double proofed like that. I’m sure one of the experts has an answer. Thanks for joining, and for the pictures. Peter
So what does the group think about my speculation that the drilling and tapping of this rifle was done at Winchester? This work may not be a rare instance, but it is interesting in the context of a scoped 1886 .50 Express. I think I would want to keep my eye well back from the scope!
BTW, I believe one of this group is putting together a database on rifles, serial numbers, etc. This rifle is numbered 152715A, which puts the date around 1912. Not sure of the significance of the “A” at the end of the serial number? Barrel length is 26″.
I thought about getting a letter at one time in an attempt at filling in some of the history on this rifle but as I recall the Cody museum people had a message on there site indicating they were not taking new requests due to a back log of requests. At least that is what I remember, right or wrong. Still would like that letter though.
John
John,
You really do need to get in touch with the CFM and get a factory letter for your Model 1886. Hopefully it will show a “R&R” entry.
Factory scoped Winchester lever-action rifles are very rare.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H.
i just ordered that letter. It will be interesting to see the result. The R&R entry you described, would that be something like “Repair and Replace” or?
John
John,
Its stands for Return & Repair
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Bert, Peter, and All
I have an interesting developement concerning my double proofed rifle. In my last posting Bert suggested that a “Factory Letter” be obtained. I ordered the letter and received it today. I have attached the letter (photo) to this posting.
Admittedly, I have only seen one other Factory Letter and that letter basically said when it was “Recieved in Warehouse” and little else. I was amazed at the other information included in my letter. I fully admit I don’t understand much of the balance of the information or if most letters have this same type of information.
The line where it says “Charged to W.R.A. Company of New York City”, does this mean that Winchester had a store in New York and the rifle was sent to them to be sold?
I was wondering if “Robert Van Iderstine” had a connection with “Morse Drydock and Repair Company of New York City”. Maybe he owned the Company? I may try to track down the person and the company. Could be interesting.
My guess is the rifle was returned to have a scope mounted on it, which is what prompted me to post my first comments a few week ago. Too bad the Order numbers can’t be tracked down to see a bit more history. Anyway I thought I would share this with you. I will be courious about your more experienced comments. Thanks.
John
John McMillan said
I have an interesting developement concerning my double proofed rifle. In my last posting Bert suggested that a “Factory Letter” be obtained. I ordered the letter and received it today. I have attached the letter (photo) to this posting.Admittedly, I have only seen one other Factory Letter and that letter basically said when it was “Recieved in Warehouse” and little else. I was amazed at the other information included in my letter. I fully admit I don’t understand much of the balance of the information or if most letters have this same type of information.
The line where it says “Charged to W.R.A. Company of New York City”, does this mean that Winchester had a store in New York and the rifle was sent to them to be sold?
I was wondering if “Robert Van Iderstine” had a connection with “Morse Drydock and Repair Company of New York City”. Maybe he owned the Company? I may try to track down the person and the company. Could be interesting.
My guess is the rifle was returned to have a scope mounted on it, which is what prompted me to post my first comments a few week ago. Too bad the Order numbers can’t be tracked down to see a bit more history. Anyway I thought I would share this with you. I will be courious about your more experienced comments. Thanks.
John
John,
Winchester had a store in New York City from almost the beginning of the New Haven factory. You are very lucky. Cody letters “never” contain sold to information. Some people would die for that info. As I read the letter, and let me say I am not the person to be interpreting it, you rifle was returned for unknown reason to the factory by the NY Store. The reason was not a warranty type issue because the R&R was charged to them. It was sold before it was returned. It was to be paid for by the firm mentioned in the last line. Why these entries were on the record is beyond me. I have never seen or heard of this happening. But then we do say “never say never with Winchester”. Go by a Loto ticket you lucky dog.
Vince
Vince
Southern Oregon
NRA member
Fraternal Order of Eagles
“There is but one answer to be made to the dynamite bomb and that can best be made by the Winchester rifle.”
Teddy Roosevelt
Yes, quite the interesting factory letter.
If there’s anyone who collects rare or unique factory letters this would sure be a candidate for their collection.
Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886
Hi John and thanks for the post/update. Never seen a letter like that before. Very interesting, and you’re lucky to have it. Peter
I googled Morse Drydock…
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morse_Dry_Dock_and_Repair_Company
Seems to have been successful for much of its “life”. No mention of Robert Van Iderstine. Courious as to the relationship.
John
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