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I recently picked up a well used but not abused FWT in ’06 on the cheap. Not sure what to do with it. Been considering having it reblued but HATE the typical job where the original look is polished over. Also considering having it parkerised and using it instead of one of my nicer model 70’s in the rain and snow (have 6 other pre 64’s in various calibers and much nicer condition).
So, I am looking for information on a GOOD smith who could put a reblue that looks much like the factory. For that matter, what kind of bluing was Winchester using in ’55?
Also looking for thoughts on parkerising and how it may affect the function of this rifle, and who does a good job.
I would also be interested in a FWT barrel in .270.
99 views with not a single word of help…..not much reason to return to this site.
Mjrand said
99 views with not a single word of help…..not much reason to return to this site.
Being that this is a “Collectors” website and forums, the vast majority of us do not believe that an old Winchester should be reblued/refinished, or parkerized. Restorations are a different subject.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 5, 2014
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FWIW… A 98% condition 30-06 SPRG Featherweight from 1955 is worth maybe $1250.00 or thereabouts. There are several people one can find via the Internet who advertise that they can do a correct refinish, but the metal will cost you around about $750.00 and the stock another $500 (not counting recutting the checkering) if it also needs a refinish.
At that point you’ll have about $1250.00 in a restored/refinished gun that was worth maybe $1250.00 to begin with if original. So even if you deceive somebody into thinking that the rifle is in original condition, the best you can get from the scam is to cover the cost of “restoration” (forgetting about the original cost of the rifle).
If it’s a personal rifle you plan to use, and it shoots accurately, I’d say teflon it and get Brown Precision (or similar) to fit it with a lightweight synthetic stock. Then you’ll have a compact hunting rifle that is a joy to carry and will get the job done afield.
Just my take…
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Wow Louis, honestly, that reply was uncalled for! I had no intention of, nor gave any reason to think, I was trying to deceive anyone. I clearly stated that one option I was considering was parkerisation and that is in no way an attempt to fabricate some fake. I have some nice model 70’s, and this gun is to be used hunting so I don’t have to add wear and tear on any of them. I stated that as well. You were obviously gratified to assume I know nothing about these guns and write a lengthy response demonstrating your superior position. Thank you for nothing.
Bert, your point is taken, and perhaps this forum is not the best place for my question. I just figured you guys may know some decent gunsmiths who can do a decent job.
I have a gun safe full of nice Winchesters, but if ego’s like Louis are what I’d find in the WACA then I will just continue to enjoy them on my own.
A couple years ago, I had Mel Doyle reblue a Sako hunting rifle for me. He did an excellent job and told me that he can match most blueing. But, we were talking about the high gloss Sako style blueing and not Winchester blueing. He did it very quickly and very inexpensively (I think the total cost was about $50). I have not had him do any other work for me but he seems to have a very good reputation for customer service. He is located in Plummer, Idaho. It has been a long time and I don’t know if he’s still in business but I would recommend him.
November 5, 2014
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I apologize to all readers if my reply was deemed inappropriate. My point was simply that the cost of duplicating the original finishes would likely be equal to or greater than the value of the rifle. There are many shops that could do the work. For example I think RGS Restorations would do a respectable job if you explain to them what you are looking for.
The last comment about teflon simply reflects my own preference in bolt action hunting rifles that will be exposed to severe weather in the field. I’ve had such work done by Brown Precision and was satisfied with the result.
Never mind…
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Lou,
If it is any consolation, I completely understood the point you were making, and that it was not intended in the manner that the OP incorrectly accused you of. Some people (especially this time of the year) are a bit thin-skinned.
Happy New Year!
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
I am anything but thin skinned…please read the second paragraph again. If I misunderstood what was being said, I do apologize, but what I read is a pretty clear implication that I was intending to “deceive” with a “scam.” If not, then why on earth would it even be stated? Hell, i didn’t even ask for information on costs or values, just a name of a decent guy to refinish my rifle with skill.
November 5, 2014
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Hi Bert-
Certainly I was not meaning to imply that the OP was dishonest. I should have used the passive voice “if one were to deceive somebody…” I was trying to pick up on your point (as often discussed in this forum) that some rifles are not “worth” the cost of a real restoration, since the added value will not enable one to re-coop the investment in rifle + restoration.
So best that I apologize to the OP for my poor choice of words. I’ve just about finished my annual Holiday stint covering VA Medicine Wards over the Holidays and I don’t want to mess up my kharma!!! 
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
OK… let’s just drop this part of the discussion. I can assure you that Lou never intended to imply any dishonest intentions on your part. Lou has always been gentleman.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
I recently had a parkerized pre-64 model 70 come into the shop and I couldn’t stop thinking how out of place the parkerized finish looked on that particular rifle. I say this as a guy whose favorite hunting rifle is a matte blued / matte cerakoted 1955 and who owns several parkerized military rifles. There is just something about the parkerized finish which seems a bit too crude for a model 70. Personally, I’d save the parkerizing for your AR or your Garand and go with something a bit more refined for your model 70.
I agree with you; I hate the buffed look. It invariably ruins the original barrel stamps and wipes out any factory edges. Unfortunately, restoring the original metal finish while preserving the factory stamps not easy. It requires special skills and equipment, plus a lot more labor than just putting everything on a buffing wheel. People with polished barrels and blurred barrel stamps are getting what they pay for. I do have a good smith here in Washington who can do great work on a reblue, or a coated finish for you. I wold not give him a rare part and ask him to replicate the Winchester factory finish, as there are very few around who can reliably do this work. However, for a matte or satin finished bluing job, or any color/texture of coated finish, my guys is reliable, inexpensive, and does excellent work.
For what it’s worth, Lou is one of the good guys here. It’s too bad his comments rubbed you the wrong way – I know he didn’t intend them to be offensive. When it comes to model 70s, I’ve found Lou to be a wealth of knowledge and immensely willing to help.
Good luck with your project!
Justin
Mjrand said
I am anything but thin skinned…please read the second paragraph again. If I misunderstood what was being said, I do apologize, but what I read is a pretty clear implication that I was intending to “deceive” with a “scam.” If not, then why on earth would it even be stated? Hell, i didn’t even ask for information on costs or values, just a name of a decent guy to refinish my rifle with skill.
I believe the reason the topic of scam rifles was brought up is because we regularly discuss restored rifles which are being presented as original here on these forums. We routinely post examples of these scam rifles and their scammer (or unwitting) sellers trying to market these rifles to collectors. This is a practice which is hurting collectors by undermining confidence in collectible guns and devaluing authentic rifles, so it’s a big topic here. As a part of this topic, we also discuss the problem of people trying to replicate factory finishes. In part, the availability of services which can replicate a factory finish fuels the scam collector rifle market. Most people here are interested in and concerned about these subjects.
It is clear from your post that your intent is not to create a fake collectible and sell it to an unsuspecting buyer. However, inquiring about the people who can replicate a factory finish here on a collector forum is bound to also bring up the topic of rifles which are restored and presented as original. I am certain Lou was not accusing you of planning to scam anyone.
To Lou, I apologize for misinterpreting your post, I am as serious about fakes as all of you and I don’t take feeling accused of such lightly. But, with the price you quoted of a quality reblue and stock that’s acceptable to me, it sounds like a good thing to consider on an otherwise complete and unmessed with $200 rifle.
Pre64win, I’d like to have the name of your bluing guy. Thank you for your thoughts on the parked winchester you actually saw first hand. I love hunting with my older model 70’s and spend a lot of time with them in my hands and if I didn’t like the finish it would bother me a lot.
I hope your new business is doing well. I got some bolt parts from you to finish up an extremely clean ‘closet queen’ 1961 vintage .243 standard rifle that was only $325 because he lost the bolt. I hope to see how it does wih the coyotes later this month. The parts were just what I needed, shipped very quickly, and priced right. Very happy.
November 5, 2014
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Hi Mjrand-
I think Justin (pre64win) summed it up nicely. Since this is a collector forum, we spend a lot of time discussing ‘faux finishes’ on Winchester rifles being represented as original. Some are laughable, but if you follow the auctions I’m sure you’ve seen a bunch of rifles that are in no way original selling for big bucks to unwary ‘investors’….
You were QUITE CLEAR in your original post that YOU had no intention to deceive, and my ERROR was in using the word ‘YOU’ when trying to make the point about the question of ‘added value’ in a restoration. I did not intend the remark to be a personal slander.
I do think RGS Restorations could do a satisfactory job for you if you want to go that way and are clear about what you are looking for in the end product. It would not be cheap, however. I’ve had them do some rebluing of small parts (bottom metal) for me for some of my ‘shooter’ M70s and thought the job was quite nice. I’ve never asked them for a wood refinish, as I can re-do wood/checkering on ‘shooters’ myself. FWIW, I am not a dealer, and messing with old guns is more a form of physical therapy…
I do like the ‘teflon’ thing in a bolt action field rifle. My brother has three rifles he built up on M70 actions (.358 NORMA MAG, .358 STA, and .375 H&H) that he had tefloned and fit with synthetic stocks. I watched him knock over a BIG Northern BC moose with one shot at 25 yards with the .358 STA and was around when he knocked over a BIG Wyoming elk with the same rifle. They’re as weatherproof as you can get from an old Winchester bolt action. While not a Winchester, I finally gave in and had my .300 Weatherby Mark V redone by Brown Precision. I’ve had that rifle since high school and it had seen its fair share of scabbard use. I’m hoping to wear the finish off that one AGAIN in the future…
Best,
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Lou,
First of all let me say I am glad to have gotten the above matter behind us. I do not enjoy that sort of thing, as I am sure you do not either.
I can see how the Teflon coatings and synthetic stocks make a fine and robust addition to a hunting rifle, but I just have never warmed up to those things. Over the years I have replaced all my synthetic hunting clothes with wool, make my hunting camp with a Davis canvas wall tent heated with a wood stove, and always have a 1950’s vintage Winchester in my hands. Teflon and fiberglass, as practical as they are, just don’t set the right mood for me, I guess. (I do have modern scopes on my rifles and gore-tex in my boots, though…..I’m not completely crazy!)
Years ago I had a mid 50’s standard rifle that had a bad bore. I had it rebored and chambered to 35 Whelen. Loved the classic gun and cartridge combo….but the reblue, though not over polished, left the same finish texture on the barrel as well as the reciever. Even on a gun that was nowhere near “collectable” it drove me nuts. Still does. One day I may have that gun redone. BTW, love 35’s…for Whitetails the Whelen is big medicine.
Mike
Plus 1 for Louis’ point.
Sometimes plying the Gunboards “Workbench” Forum. There, not infrequently similar situations in the context of Threads seeking advice regarding repairing/restoring guns which, practically speaking, would result in net cost greater than their resulting value. While I can’t speak to most pure gunsmithing issues per se, I and others, not shy about offering such plain spoken ‘value based’ comments similar to Louis’.
Yet another material consideration, the vicissitudes of finding the ‘priced right’ skilled labor with hazards of costly misunderstandings/disappointing results. Nothing to impugn any gunsmith, but a question of expectations versus results. The best way to avoid such, to avoid engaging such services where possible. That solution seemingly quite available in context of relatively common guns. A standard grade Win Pre ’64 Featherweight in 270 Win, hardly ‘rare’. For those settling for such reblued non-original model, nowadays sadly too common and often at considerably less dollars than an original, ‘honest’ – investment gun.
The final point. Assuming the purchase of an original Featherweight accommodating the urge. Yet the disposal value of the former ‘restoration’ candidate! Something of a ‘win-win’, so to seem.
A final sidebar concerning the term “You”. Working overseas in daily government to government routines, even with professional translators the English “you” more than just pesky. As here, not just leading to misunderstandings, but potentially taken quite personally in context of insult. Even between native English speakers, simply intonation sometimes the distinguishing context! Ingrained in our language, but hazardous! The only saving grace working in Russia, their solution for all potential misunderstandings. “After three vodkas, we understand each other perfectly.” From extensive personal on-scene research… Quite true!
Happy New Year to all and…
My take
Mjrand said
Pre64win, I’d like to have the name of your bluing guy. Thank you for your thoughts on the parked winchester you actually saw first hand. I love hunting with my older model 70’s and spend a lot of time with them in my hands and if I didn’t like the finish it would bother me a lot.I hope your new business is doing well. I got some bolt parts from you to finish up an extremely clean ‘closet queen’ 1961 vintage .243 standard rifle that was only $325 because he lost the bolt. I hope to see how it does wih the coyotes later this month. The parts were just what I needed, shipped very quickly, and priced right. Very happy.
Thanks for the kind words about pre64win.com. The website has generated more demand for parts than we ever expected. I’m thrilled to be helping keep these old model 70s functioning, but it’s been a struggle… The shear volume of customers has made it hard to keep a good amount of parts in inventory. A nice problem for a business to have, I suppose, even though I’m not taking any profits from the company. Regardless, your confidence in buying from us is much appreciated!
On a related note, if anyone has model 70 parts they would like to sell, I’d be really grateful for the chance to send you a cash offer.
Regarding bluing: The smith I use for bluing is Pederson Arms in Arlington, WA. (http://pedersonarms.com/) Ken Pederson is an extremely nice and fair guy who is set up to do caustic and rust bluing, as well as coatings (Durakote, etc). I believe he may have some prices on his website. I will just add that I generally do the metal prep myself and bring them to Ken ready to blue. I am happy to bring Ken parts which need a polished or satin finish, but will do the metal prep myself if it is something which needs a specific surface prep or “grain” prior to bluing.
Thanks!
Justin
Iskra, you illuminate valid points from the collectors perspective. I have owned many guns in my life, but perhaps only three or four that those who frequent this board might actually consider “collectors” condition. I had a complete M1D with all the accouterments and paperwork in absolutely pristine condition from back when the DCM was offering them. Also had a “test fired only” model 70 FWT in 308 for a while. While I enjoyed them immensely, I was frustrated by the fact that if I were to even fire them one or twice on a sunny day I most likely would have hurt their value. The responsibility I felt to preserve their condition was a job I eventually decided was best left to someone else. I like to hunt, shoot, and enjoy these fine pieces of history as they were originally intended….in the rain, snow, and as a trusted companion that was ready to accept the bumps and bruises of deer camp and in the field. I also like to tinker, and enjoy bringing back to life old classic Winchesters that have served their owners over the decades and need a little TLC in order to bring them back to a condition to serve for many more years. This practice, in itself, has value in providing this type of enthusiast another way to enjoy the allure of old Winchesters. It also provides value in that it is less heartbreaking to put a dent in the stock of a “redone” winchester than in one of “nearly” collectors condition. My original question was not about money or cost. I expressed my dislike for highly polished “quickie” bluing jobs completely un-sympathetic to the original finish treatments and was inquiring about gunsmiths who, though more costly, could do a job in restoring the original type of aesthetics. I have a better understanding now of the collectors community having a high degree of sensitivity to a too common practice of creating fakes. This was something that had never even crossed my mind, so I was a bit shocked at the subject being broached in relation to me. Though just as invalid as it was and will always be as far as my actions are concerned, I do now better see it is a very important subject for the collector such as those who frequent this forum, and is at the top of the game in the winchester collectors world.
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