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1941 Winchester Model 70 .257 Roberts
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April 18, 2024 - 3:28 pm
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Hi all,

I am completely new here. I joined to see if I can help a friend out. I would say I have an above average knowledge of guns, but that’s pretty easy to do considering what I see on the news :). What I do not have a lot of knowledge in is the collectibility of Pre64 Winchester Model 7O’s, and so I’ve come here. 

I have a friend whose father passed away a bit ago and he had a handful of guns. One of those is a Winchester Model 70 chambered in .257 Roberts. I ran the Serial Number on Winchester’s website and it appears that the gun was manufactured in 1941. I was surprised at the age because of how absolutely beautiful this gun is. The gun does have a scope, a Weaver K6 60-B1, which I now know reduces the overall collector’s value, but is in really nice shape as well. 

It seems like the value of Pre64 Model 70’s vary quite a bit, but from what I’ve read Pre-War rifles are desirable for collectors, .257 Roberts made up about 2% of the Pre-War rifles, which could make them more desirable, BUT it’s been drilled and tapped for a scope. My friend initially gave me this gun for helping her out with some stuff when her dad was sick, but then I realized there might be more value than a few hundred bucks and that I wouldn’t feel right if it was worth a few thousand.

All that being said, can anyone help me out with a potential value of the gun, and maybe direct me to a good place to sell it so I can give her the money? She is a single mother whose husband cheated on her and left her with two kids, she’s a school teacher, and her truck just broke down. (I realize this sounds like it could be a fabricated story to gain sympathy, but unfortunately it’s not.)

Any help would be appreciated!

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April 20, 2024 - 7:17 pm
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Welcome to WACA Clever…..

Condition and originality of your gun are key, a couple pics would help greatly in determining potential value.

It would probably be a good idea to check your guns S/N here on WACA using the Resources/When Was My Winchester Made tabs

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April 22, 2024 - 12:03 pm
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Tedk,

Thank you for responding. I previously used the sites resource to determine the date of manufacture, that is where I got 1941 from. I am trying to figure out how to upload photos here from my phone, and will do so once I sort that out. 

I emailed the photos I have to Pre64.com and their valuation expert rated in superb condition based on the photos. He said even though the rear receiver had been drilled and a scope fitted, the scarcity of the rifle being a pre-war Type 1 Model 70 in .257 Roberts makes it sought after. 

-Jason

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April 22, 2024 - 1:00 pm
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A_Clever_Name said
I emailed the photos I have to Pre64.com and their valuation expert rated in superb condition based on the photos. He said even though the rear receiver had been drilled and a scope fitted, the scarcity of the rifle being a pre-war Type 1 Model 70 in .257 Roberts makes it sought after.  

Highly sought after, by anyone intending to shoot it–as opposed to lock it up in a gun safe.  This trivial alteration makes it a better rifle by correcting the short-sighted factory mistake of building it without provision for modern sighting; modern by the standards of 1941, I mean!  The steel-tube K6 beats the hell out of any of the freakish-looking new scopes made today.

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April 22, 2024 - 2:01 pm
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Hi Jason-

Despite surveying pre-64 M70s on a daily basis, I tend to pay little attention to prices.  So what I say below may or may not reflect the current market.  I would suggest that you go to the Rock Island Auction site and search Past Auctions (Premier and Sporting/Collector) for “Winchester 70 257”.  I’m reasonably sure you can find at least a half dozen sold examples in the past couple years that you can compare to the condition of your rifle.  Of course RIA tends to reflect the “high end” of the market and their “Sold For” prices include the Buyer’s Premium (not just the hammer price).  But at least it might give you a “top dollar” figure for your rifle.

That said, it seems to me that clean (98%) all original (no added holes) pre-war M70s in 30 GOV’T’06 have climbed to as much as $3250 in the last couple years.  The 257 ROBERTS is a sought after chambering as it is less common (although by no means rare in the pre-war period) and pleasant to shoot.  I suspect that an all original pre-war Roberts could bring over $4K these days, maybe $4250 or so. 

The issue is how much the scope mount affects the value.  There are a lot of factors in play.  Any alteration will drop the “purist” collectors (like me) out of the market. Some people “just can’t get past the extra holes”… Wink But a genuinely original high condition pre-war Roberts with just a single hole in the bridge for a Redfield JR one-piece base (which can be contemporary to the rifle), would have less impact than two holes, e.g. post-war Weaver bases, or drilling for a side mount.  Like Clarence said, being able to scope the rifle adds appeal for some people, and doesn’t detract too much from the value in the shooter/collector market.  Still, the D&T hole (even if that’s the only alteration), can reduce value by 30-50% depending on the other factors mentioned above.

Either way, it sounds like a very nice rifle that would appeal to a goodly subset of the market.  I wouldn’t expect to get more than something in the $2500-2750 range, but it’s definitely NOT worth only “a few hundred bucks”…  Of course you could always put it on GB with a Penny Start and No Reserve and see what happens.  There are NO “bargains” on GB, people will see it and you might be surprised what it would bring.  Just includes LOTS of quality/well lit photos, like the way Dave Morris (Frontier Guns) does with his listings on GI or Justin Hale does on the Pre64win.com website.

Even as a registered forum member, you can’t post photos directly here.  You can put them on an image hosting site and post the link here, or you can e-mail them to me ([email protected]) and I can post them for you. Or you can join WACA and post them yourself… Laugh

Just my take,

Lou

P.S.  What did Andy (Hale) say he thought the rifle was worth?  They pay more attention to prices than I do… 

WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters

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April 22, 2024 - 3:27 pm
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Louis Luttrell said
There are NO “bargains” on GB, people will see it and you might be surprised what it would bring. 

AMEN to that!

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April 23, 2024 - 4:56 pm
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clarence said

Louis Luttrell said

There are NO “bargains” on GB, people will see it and you might be surprised what it would bring. 

AMEN to that!

  

I think this is largely true but many here have landed some pleasant exceptions.  One scenario I’ve seen is someone doesn’t know the value of what they have, and they list a buy-it-now price that is well under the value.  

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April 23, 2024 - 7:45 pm
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I agree with Steve.  Also, sometimes the seller may know what he has but describes it inadequately or misspells an important name that defeats the trolls and search engines. The writer Terry Weiland has secured a gorgeous custom .270 rifle because the online seller spelled its maker “Beisen”. 

I’ve not seen the elephant or heard the owl but have twice scored minor wins on GB because of such errors:

1. I’d always wanted a newish Remington 600 .350 Magnum.  A PNW dealer put one up with a modest reserve and a $900 BIN, which is what an average one was worth at the time. This one was absolutely cherry but 6 or 7 yahoos were nickel and diming one another and the high bid stood at about $825 several hours before closing. Bang, now you see it, now you don’t.  The little blaster even came with 200 rounds of good reloads, half 250 grain and half 200. I turned down $1600 for it several years later. 

2.  I wanted a nice, early A-5.  Guy in San Fran puts up a 12 gauge, 28″ plain full choke barrel, wants $650 to start. One fuzzy pic, no history. No takers because there’s a lot of tub toy field grade 12 bore  Auto Fives around. Something tells me to download the pic and blow it up in Photoshop enough diameters that I can see a little about its condition. Looks like yellow Euro wood and flat diamond checkering.  Pretty early, not used as a tomato stake. So I email the guy and he’s anxious to give me the family history. His uncle was an SFPD robbery dick who joined the force with his fellow Irish immigrant pal who rose to become Chief of SFPD. This brand new 1955  A5 was uncle’s retirement gift from the chief, who put it in his hands. Uncle never shot it, nephew seller’s dad never shot it, nephew inherited it and never shot it.  Stone mint. I plugged uncle’s name into Newspapers.com and prohibition Era Damon Runyon style SF news story about Uncle rolling up bad guys pops out. He’s real. I buy it for $650 and it is perfect. Rust blued barrel, machine blued receiver, nitre blue screws, French Walnut, horn buttplate.  I added a new, unfired Miroku 26″ VR choke-tube barrel for it and it’s gone dove hunting in the Panhandle. The original barrel is safely stored. 

- Bill 

 

WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist

"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.

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April 23, 2024 - 8:17 pm
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Hi Zeb-

To your point, I’ve never been much of a GB “shopper”, but I have occasionally found “sleepers” in various auctions that went “cheap” b/c they were inaccurately described.  For example I paid $2750 (hammer price) for my very nice (and fully documented) M70 “Van Orden Sniper” in a Rock Island Auction where the Van Orden provenance was not recognized in the description.  By contrast, the three documented (and described as such) VO Snipers in the RIA Premier Auction before last brought $17-21K apiece…  

That said, what I was suggesting to the OP was a Penny Start – No Reserve GB Auction of at least 10 days duration with a lot of good clear pictures.  I’d be surprised to find m/any “bargains” happening in that format… No Reserve means that it WILL sell, so bid now or pass – no second chance relist, and 10 days is long enough for a lot of people to see it.  It might not bring as much as some people are “ASKING” on a fixed price site like GI, but how quickly are their guns actually SELLING?

That’s all I meant…  Like many, my “hope” (of finding a good gun at a real good price) “springs eternal”, but my level of optimism that will happen is about in line with Clarence’s. Laugh

Best,

Lou

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April 23, 2024 - 9:18 pm
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Hi Lou.  Absolutely concur with your suggested auction principles. We agree fulsome description and extensive, clear photography are crucial. I’ve never been disappointed in penny start 2 week auctions. You WILL learn the real FMV and maybe more besides. 

Like a business litigator’s dream 

: two rich guys who want to fight.

Get your shelving built?

- Bill 

 

WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist

"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.

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