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March 9, 2026
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I had just recently inherited a 1927, Winchester model 1892, 44 W.C.F. (Serial #980407) and do not know much about it or its value. I am trying to do some research and am just scratching the surface to determine if it is something special. The photos are preliminary and I will take some more detailed photos to share, i just wanted a direction to head in. I am not necessarily looking for a Value to sell the gun, although i am eager to shoot it… I just don’t want to put any rounds through it if its some sort of collectors item.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/L8m25Av7sExHyYtw9
Thanks in advance!
November 19, 2006
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Very interesting. It’s a SRC with an octagon barrel. Looks to me like an MGM movie gun made up by Winchester. Aside from the octagon barrel on a SRC, the extra dovetail on the underside of the barrel is a significant clue. We’ve had past threads here on these rifle/carbines. I seem to recall there was an article on them in the WACA magazine. I can’t recall which issues but others here with sharper memories will remember.
December 9, 2002
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It’s definitely an interesting piece, as Steve has said. Besides the dovetail that he pointed out underneath the barrel, the top of the barrel, has the mail order stamp in front of the proof stamp from the factory, which really makes me wonder why, the factory would send a rifle barrel for a carbine, as I’m thinking some confusion when ordered, as maybe a carbine barrel wasn’t available, as you say in 1927, close to the “Great Depression Era”. The serial number in the pictures,#980487 indicates it was mfg. in 1929, marking the begging of this great World Wide event!
The Barrel bluing and condition shows that it doesn’t match the rest of the gun. The wood looks like it was refreshed a long time ago, to me.
Maybe Steve is correct, as a Movie prop. As long as you check it out, or have it checked by a competent Gun smith, and make sure it’s functioning safely and or properly, I wouldn’t hesitate to shoot it, as it doesn’t have collector value. IMO!
To answer you’re other question It doesn’t appear to be “something special”. IMHO!
Anthony
November 7, 2015
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Sometimes the difference between “something special” and a Frankenchester is provenance. The octagon barrel may be the result of a carbine needing a new barrel and an available rifle barrel with a damaged muzzle or some other misadventure. The mail order stamp adds intrigue. I like your little SRC, I hope it checks out mechanically as it looks like it will be fun to shoot. As I recall the prop houses often marked their weapons in somewhat inconspicuous places, are there any markings that don’t seem to be normal factory markings?
Mike
January 20, 2023
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Mike is right- this carbine may have an interesting backstory or it may just be a case of “necessity is the mother of invention.”
Either way, unless it was provably Elia Kazan’s personal housegun, it doesn’t have collector value. However, that doesn’t mean it is valueless, if it is in good and safe condition to shoot.
A late model 1892 44 WCF probably hasn’t suffered from black powder or mercuric priming corrosion, for one thing. It can serve the same purposes one with a kosher barrel can, which is saying a lot.
These days, I’d have a competent gunsmith look it over, check headspace, deep clean it and hand it back.
Then I’d take it shooting and see what it will do.
I, for one, would feel very comfortable with it for defensive purposes. Nobody ever shot with the old 44 confused it with a mosquito bite.
It’s a better M1 Carbine than the M1 Carbine.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
November 19, 2006
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Your carbine is #980407. Rob Kassab identified six set up the same as this yours – octagon barrel, saddle ring and that extra dovetail cut in the bottom of the barrel immediately forward of the forearm. The numbers Rob identified were: 944598, 944985, 954946, 971284, 981114, 981141. Yours would fit right in there. I’ve seen others for sale. The guns are a mystery. Collectors have referred to them as movie guns. Somewhere I thought I read they were linked to the MGM studio, but I can’t recall for sure.
Michael probably has more logged in his survey.
November 19, 2006
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Edit – the movie studio was likely Paramount, not MGM – this noted by Rob Kassab where he passes on a conversation that George Madis said he had with his old friend, Ed Pugsley. These carbines were made up during a very difficult financial time for Winchester and they were selling off scrap to raise money and using up most everything they had on hand. Supposedly 100 of these guns were made up for Paramount – at $12 each. It sounds like Winchester was able to offer them at such a low price as they were able to use up parts on hand – and it sounds like they had a good supply of .44-40 short rifle barrels laying around. It only makes sense that this odd combination would have been of no concern to Paramount. The lower price was surely of strong appeal. I certainly recall lots of Frankenstein Winchesters in various westerns.
March 9, 2026
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Thank you guys for looking this over, im confident it works, its come from a fully functional collection of weapons, that also had a bunch of 44-40 ammo and spent brass. Next time Im at the range im going to put a few rounds through it and enjoy it like all the pervious owners had.
Im glad the “oddity” can be added to the log books!
December 9, 2002
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steve004 said
Your carbine is #980407. Rob Kassab identified six set up the same as this yours – octagon barrel, saddle ring and that extra dovetail cut in the bottom of the barrel immediately forward of the forearm. The numbers Rob identified were: 944598, 944985, 954946, 971284, 981114, 981141. Yours would fit right in there. I’ve seen others for sale. The guns are a mystery. Collectors have referred to them as movie guns. Somewhere I thought I read they were linked to the MGM studio, but I can’t recall for sure.
Michael probably has more logged in his survey.
steve004 said
Edit – the movie studio was likely Paramount, not MGM – this noted by Rob Kassab where he passes on a conversation that George Madis said he had with his old friend, Ed Pugsley. These carbines were made up during a very difficult financial time for Winchester and they were selling off scrap to raise money and using up most everything they had on hand. Supposedly 100 of these guns were made up for Paramount – at $12 each. It sounds like Winchester was able to offer them at such a low price as they were able to use up parts on hand – and it sounds like they had a good supply of .44-40 short rifle barrels laying around. It only makes sense that this odd combination would have been of no concern to Paramount. The lower price was surely of strong appeal. I certainly recall lots of Frankenstein Winchesters in various westerns.
Steve,
I didn’t realize that! Great memory, or prying loose some webs enough to scurry the dust to recall any of it!
Like you said in the beginning, an Interesting piece! 
Tony
March 9, 2026
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https://winchestercollector.org/articles/202209A/
I was just able to find his article on them. So its truly a strange piece of unknown history.
March 15, 2020
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I have an 1892 that letters with swivels. These swivels don’t look like mine and based on 13-1/2′ length of pull, the rear swivel is 3-1/2″ from the butt.
Even so I would like to have it for my wall. Don
November 2, 2009
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Years ago, several of these guns showed up at the WACA show, when it was held at the school gym on Beck Ave. I have no idea whet the serial numbers were, but all were in excellent condition. I don’t remember if any of them had movie markings on them, but the story was that they were made up for movie use. I was very surprised to see that the forarm bands were cut inside to perfectly fit the octagon shape of the barrel.
April 6, 2022
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Fine looking gun . I would spend a lot of time in the woods with that. As far as shooting a collectable , I don’t think it hurts one one bit unless it’s mint , unfired . Fortunately this is a shooter not a collectable , my favorite kind . Enjoy !
Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.
Grumpy old man with a gun......Do Not Touch.
April 6, 2022
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JonLamberti said
https://winchestercollector.org/articles/202209A/
I was just able to find his article on them. So its truly a strange piece of unknown history.
Thank you .
Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.
Grumpy old man with a gun......Do Not Touch.
November 19, 2006
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I think these carbines are interesting. My observation has been they command collector vs. shooter prices. I also consider them, “Frankenstein” guns, but they are “Winchester Frankensteins” given they are presumably factory original. I’ve been aware of this variation for at least 20 years.
Sometimes we hear, “Winchester would never do____” I believe there was some variability to that statement. During the time period Winchester made these carbines, they were hard up against it. Activities like selling scrap metal to make payroll surely illustrates a business in distress. I can see when the order came in for these carbines, and that order presented the opportunity to use up some unused parts, and the customer didn’t care (e.g. about an exposed dovetail in the barrel), it was a win-win situation.
Other manufacturers had similar problems. I have a very early Marlin .410 lever action rifle made during about the same time period. Marlin would use up about anything they had on hand. The early .410 barrels were made out of unused Model 1894 .38-40 barrels. If you compare mine with one made later, the barrel on the early one is a bit thicker. I also have a couple Model 1894 Marlins that have receivers with musket swivel cut-outs on the bottom. The Model 1894 muskets were not a big seller and those parts were too valuable to not use.
Back to Winchester, I’m reminded of the M1894/95’s where they used up M1895 .30 U.S. barrels. And by the way, these are plenty collectible. We discussed an auction recently where the price fetched surprised all of us.
March 20, 2009
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Hello all,
In addition to the rifles identified by Ron Kassab (shaded SN’s) I have cataloged an additional 17 identical examples. I do not have any images of Ron’s SN 944985 and 971284 examples. Additionally I have no image files for SN’s 954946, 981114, 981256, and 994985. If anyone has one of these rifles I would love for you to contact me so that I can get a bit more info. It is interesting that the three Smoothbore examples do not have the Oval/P proof stamps on the barrels. The blue shaded serial numbers are added since these rifles show up on a Stembridge Gun Rentals invoice from 1970 that I found when a different rifle was being being auctioned off and has the SN’s listed a Car. Hex configurations. See the listing opposite the “19” near the bottom. These rifles were being rented out to Warner Bros 7 Arts Prod. for the TV show High Chaparral.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
November 19, 2006
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Here’s one that Merz had for sale a couple decades ago:
March 31, 2009
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Do these guns have a S stamped on them somewhere? Most Stembidge guns I’ve seen have the S.
March 20, 2009
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steve004 said
Here’s one that Merz had for sale a couple decades ago:
Too bad he didn’t include the SN.
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
March 20, 2009
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Chuck said
Do these guns have a S stamped on them somewhere? Most Stembidge guns I’ve seen have the S.
The ones on my spreadsheet are not marked with an “S”.
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
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