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January 26, 2011
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Here’s a couple 20″ 1894’s I have. Too late for Pancho and the gang ……… and not nearly as pretty as Dons rifle 
Mod 1894, 20″ 1/2 OB, Full Mag 30 WCF 820250 1915
Mod 1894, 20″ OB, Full Mag 30 WCF 849277 1917
~Gary~
Chuck said
Personally, if I had to pick between a short rifle and a carbine I’d pick the short rifle. I like the looks of a short rifle better than a carbine. I like octagon barrels and rifle butts.
I agree 100%. And just to give some folks a little heart burn, I put a saddle ring on mine (Uberti). Because I like the way they look. I actually like a long rifle but I had a border rifle made up for riding.
Huck Riley said
I agree 100%. And just to give some folks a little heart burn, I put a saddle ring on mine (Uberti). Because I like the way they look. I actually like a long rifle but I had a border rifle made up for riding.
Each to his own. I’d take a carbine over a short rifle – particularly as an active carrying piece.
pdog72 said
Here’s a couple 20″ 1894’s I have. Too late for Pancho and the gang ……… and not nearly as pretty as Dons rifleMod 1894, 20″ 1/2 OB, Full Mag 30 WCF 820250 1915
Mod 1894, 20″ OB, Full Mag 30 WCF 849277 1917
Very nice Gary. Love the half-octagon barrel on that short rifle!
Don
Hi. We are talking my kind of rifle. There is no doubt that a solid short rifle can be shot more accurately the a carbine and serious USERS would have picked the rifle over carbine. Carrying a carbine was like a pocket knife, do in a pinch. I think the term ‘Border Rifle’ was more an excuse for its condition. A Border rifle looked like it had spent most of its life being used hard and often, and probably still would do its job. It would be more value to me then a similar rifle that spent most of its life wrapped up in Aunt Daisy’s underwear draw. If I wanted a mint rifle I would buy a Uberti. Most of the early Winchesters In Australia are Border minus condition, with more abuse then use. A perfect 100+ year old rifle dosn’t have much history. Eric
January 26, 2011
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steve004 said
Each to his own. I’d take a carbine over a short rifle – particularly as an active carrying piece.
Hmm, if I were to order one, I think it would look like this:
Mod 94, 20″ OB, FM, TD Deluxe, Sling, & Saddle Ring 30 WCF 929867 1921
~Gary~
Eric Ryan said
There is no doubt that a solid short rifle can be shot more accurately the a carbine and serious USERS would have picked the rifle over carbine.
Why would that be? Sight radius is about the same, & the rear sight on a carbine provides easy to see & adjust calibrations, as opposed to counting the steps on the elevator of a standard sporting rear sight.
But I agree with you about “perfect” guns lacking history.
Eric Ryan said
Hi. We are talking my kind of rifle. There is no doubt that a solid short rifle can be shot more accurately the a carbine and serious USERS would have picked the rifle over carbine. Carrying a carbine was like a pocket knife, do in a pinch. I think the term ‘Border Rifle’ was more an excuse for its condition. A Border rifle looked like it had spent most of its life being used hard and often, and probably still would do its job. It would be more value to me then a similar rifle that spent most of its life wrapped up in Aunt Daisy’s underwear draw. If I wanted a mint rifle I would buy a Uberti. Most of the early Winchesters In Australia are Border minus condition, with more abuse then use. A perfect 100+ year old rifle dosn’t have much history. Eric
Here are a few examples of 100+ year old Winchester’s – they all have individual history and I wish they could talk to tell us about it. Part of the history which they share is that they were well cared for by their previous owners. Nothing wrong with that!
pdog72 said
steve004 said
Each to his own. I’d take a carbine over a short rifle – particularly as an active carrying piece.
Hmm, if I were to order one, I think it would look like this:
Mod 94, 20″ OB, FM, TD Deluxe, Sling, & Saddle Ring 30 WCF 929867 1921
Tell me about the saddle ring. I’ve never seen that done before. What material? Who did it, etc. Thanks. Sweet looking gun! Love the dark.
clarence said
Eric Ryan said
There is no doubt that a solid short rifle can be shot more accurately the a carbine and serious USERS would have picked the rifle over carbine.Why would that be?
In my personal opinion/experience, I do better with a heavier barrel. There is a compromise between too much and too little weight. I shot much better with the M-16 A-2 than with the A-1. Some might argue that has more to do with the stiffness of the barrel with a fast light round, but for me it was about the weight and I find that true with my lever guns with big, slow rounds.
pdog72 said
steve004 said
Each to his own. I’d take a carbine over a short rifle – particularly as an active carrying piece.
Hmm, if I were to order one, I think it would look like this:
Mod 94, 20″ OB, FM, TD Deluxe, Sling, & Saddle Ring 30 WCF 929867 1921
Wow. What a spectacular rifle. Never seen a sling ring on a “deluxe” rifle before. It looks like its aligned perfectly–suppose it’s factory? I love the oddity and unusualness.
Don
Huck Riley said
Tell me about the saddle ring. I’ve never seen that done before. What material?
A common way to stop the clanking. Have seen leather lacing & light cord used, but this material resembles neither.
January 26, 2011
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Huck Riley said
Tell me about the saddle ring. I’ve never seen that done before. What material? Who did it, etc. Thanks. Sweet looking gun! Love the dark.
It’s leather string and was tightly wrapped around the ring very long ago. It’s worn flat in the areas it slaps against the receiver. And yes, I very much like the look of it too.
~Gary~
January 26, 2011
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deerhunter said
Wow. What a spectacular rifle. Never seen a sling ring on a “deluxe” rifle before. It looks like its aligned perfectly–suppose it’s factory? I love the oddity and unusualness.
Don
I have no doubt this rifle is correct in all respects. I was fortunate to have the opportunity to purchase it from a seasoned collector and fellow member last year. Currently my holy grail 1894 shortie ( until the next one comes along ) ?.
~Gary~
pdog72 said
It’s leather string and was tightly wrapped around the ring very long ago.
That’s finer even than the leather lacing used for decorative stitching on belts & other leather work.
Eric Ryan said
Hi. We are talking my kind of rifle. There is no doubt that a solid short rifle can be shot more accurately the a carbine and serious USERS would have picked the rifle over carbine. Carrying a carbine was like a pocket knife, do in a pinch. I think the term ‘Border Rifle’ was more an excuse for its condition. A Border rifle looked like it had spent most of its life being used hard and often, and probably still would do its job. It would be more value to me then a similar rifle that spent most of its life wrapped up in Aunt Daisy’s underwear draw. If I wanted a mint rifle I would buy a Uberti. Most of the early Winchesters In Australia are Border minus condition, with more abuse then use. A perfect 100+ year old rifle dosn’t have much history. Eric
I will admit to having never met the qualifications of a, “serious user.” And if I did have the chance to test a carbine vs. a short rifle under serious use, I could see there is the potential to change my opinion. My own history of use with a centerfire rifle (other than range trips) is deep woods deer hunting. Quick handling is important. I would definitely choose a short rifle over a full length (e.g. 26 inch) barreled rifle. But as stated, I would chose the carbine over a short rifle. However not all short rifles are made the same. A rifle with a 20 inch lightweight round or half-octagon barrel with a short magazine would get very high marks from me.
If I’m going to spend the entire day picking my way through brush, around and through windfalls, up and down hills and so on – and if for every second of that day, the rifle is in my hand, ease and quickness of handling is huge. Even up in a deer stand built into a tree where maneuvering is very tight, a lightweight and portable firearm is desirable. I realize people who hunt from horses, hunt in large open spaces and so on, have a very different scenario. Some people hunt from pickups with binoculars and don’t actually get out of the truck until they spot something. Very different from my hunting experiences.
steve004 said
I realize people who hunt from horses, hunt in large open spaces and so on, have a very different scenario.
That’s why I have my short rifle. A horse can handle a long rifle, but short is better for just generally staying out of the way. Some go butt-back, some forward (I like butt-forward on the off side). I don’t rope with a gun, either.
steve004 said
I will admit to having never met the qualifications of a, “serious user.” And if I did have the chance to test a carbine vs. a short rifle under serious use, I could see there is the potential to change my opinion. My own history of use with a centerfire rifle (other than range trips) is deep woods deer hunting. Quick handling is important. I would definitely choose a short rifle over a full length (e.g. 26 inch) barreled rifle. But as stated, I would chose the carbine over a short rifle. However not all short rifles are made the same. A rifle with a 20 inch lightweight round or half-octagon barrel with a short magazine would get very high marks from me.
If I’m going to spend the entire day picking my way through brush, around and through windfalls, up and down hills and so on – and if for every second of that day, the rifle is in my hand, ease and quickness of handling is huge. Even up in a deer stand built into a tree where maneuvering is very tight, a lightweight and portable firearm is desirable. I realize people who hunt from horses, hunt in large open spaces and so on, have a very different scenario. Some people hunt from pickups with binoculars and don’t actually get out of the truck until they spot something. Very different from my hunting experiences.
I’ll second that Steve. I find the short rifles very cool if that’s the term I can use but for the type of hunting up here in Maine and New Brunswick the 20 inch 94 carbine button mag is my favourite gun. I certainly wouldn’t pass up a rifle with a 20 inch lightweight round or half-octagon barrel with a short magazine ad you’ve described.
RickC
steve004 said
I will admit to having never met the qualifications of a, “serious user.” And if I did have the chance to test a carbine vs. a short rifle under serious use, I could see there is the potential to change my opinion. My own history of use with a centerfire rifle (other than range trips) is deep woods deer hunting. Quick handling is important. I would definitely choose a short rifle over a full length (e.g. 26 inch) barreled rifle. But as stated, I would chose the carbine over a short rifle. However not all short rifles are made the same. A rifle with a 20 inch lightweight round or half-octagon barrel with a short magazine would get very high marks from me.
If I’m going to spend the entire day picking my way through brush, around and through windfalls, up and down hills and so on – and if for every second of that day, the rifle is in my hand, ease and quickness of handling is huge. Even up in a deer stand built into a tree where maneuvering is very tight, a lightweight and portable firearm is desirable. I realize people who hunt from horses, hunt in large open spaces and so on, have a very different scenario. Some people hunt from pickups with binoculars and don’t actually get out of the truck until they spot something. Very different from my hunting experiences.
steve004 said
Some people hunt from pickups with binoculars and don’t actually get out of the truck until they spot something. Very different from my hunting experiences.
Steve – that’s how I got this jackalope in western South Dakota – drove around in the pickup until I spotted him. In SD you can’t shoot from a vehicle so I had to get out to take him. I believe P-dog said he was able to take one once also – somewhere in Wyoming.
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