Avatar
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
1894 barrel length
Avatar
RickC
Guest
Guests
21
January 3, 2020 - 1:19 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

jamned said

My serial # is 5782. Number applied August 10, 1895. Shipped from Warehouse Aug. 23, 1895. 32-40, rifle, round barrel, plain trigger. This is all the info given for this rifle. It must have been made some time in 1894, right? Madis book says over 14,000 made the first year.  

I would have to see a pic of the receiver to confirm it’s a first variation model. It may or may not be.

AG

Avatar
Bert H.
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 12859
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
22
January 3, 2020 - 1:37 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

AG said

I would have to see a pic of the receiver to confirm it’s a first variation model. It may or may not be.

AG  

The odds of it being a First variation Model 1894 are 99.999% against it.  Of the (213) First variation Model 1894s in my research survey, they are almost all 38-55s (210), with (3) in 30 WCF… No 32-40s.  Additionally, all but (8) of them are below serial number 5300.  My survey covers serial numbers 1 – 7999.

Bert

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
RickC
Guest
Guests
23
January 3, 2020 - 2:04 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Bert H. said

The odds of it being a First variation Model 1894 are 99.999% against it.  Of the (213) First variation Model 1894s in my research survey, they are almost all 38-55s (210), with (3) in 30 WCF… No 32-40s.  Additionally, all but (8) of them are below serial number 5300.  My survey covers serial numbers 1 – 7999.

Bert  

Thanks Bert. Good info for future reference. Not much point in posting a pic really.

AG

Avatar
TXGunNut
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 6403
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
24
January 3, 2020 - 2:59 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Chuck said

Madis’ info has been proven to have errors.  Use the Resources tab at the top of the page (when was my gun made).  This information comes straight from the Winchester records at the Cody Museum.  The Red book is a great resource.

TXGunNut said
Madis did not have access to the records we use today.
 
Mike  

That may not be true??  

I don’t believe he did, we’ll probably never know. It’s my theory that Madis had access to records we may never see…but I have nothing to base it on other than the stories I read of Winchester purging records and history-minded employees saving them from the landfill or furnace. People like Madis and Houze forgot more about Winchesters than I’ll ever know; I’m just grateful that they shared so much of what they knew. There’s no doubt the PRB has been around for awhile, question is how many people knew about it before Bert Hartman, David Kennedy et al started telling the rest of us about it. I keep dreaming that a shipping log or even a repair shop log will turn up someday. People who know better think that’s pretty funny. Wink

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Board Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Avatar
Blueliner
California
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 494
Member Since:
July 19, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
25
January 3, 2020 - 3:57 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Thanks guys, the orders are appreciated. 

I don’t have any more accessories or equipment, it all sold over the past few months.

Thanks for checking,

Bill

Avatar
Bert H.
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 12859
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
26
January 3, 2020 - 4:42 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Mike,

There were at least four other Winchester authors who were aware of the PR records before Madis published his DOM booklet… Ned Schwing, Herbert Houze, Dave Riffle, and Roger Rule, as all four published information from the PR records in their respective books. It was the DOM tables they published (which differed greatly from Madis’ book) that started me on the quest to unearth their source of information, and during my visits with Dave Kennedy at the CFM (back in 2002 – 2005), I was provided the opportunity to examine the PR records in close detail. It is my belief that Madis was either unaware of the importance of those records, or just was completely unaware of them. He most certainly would have had access to them before they were shipped to Cody in 1976/1977.

Bert

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
mrcvs
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2192
Member Since:
September 22, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
27
January 3, 2020 - 10:39 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

It may be that Madis had access to any and all records currently available today but elected to use those which best suited his cause.  There may not have been any devious intent, but just perhaps a choice had to be made and an educated guess was made or the records that he preferred were used.

In research, this happens quite frequently.  A hypothesis is formulated and sometimes the results are not cut and dry.  Some findings are lauded and supported while others are discounted or explained in a manner that supports why they were not as expected.

Avatar
tionesta1
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1525
Member Since:
July 8, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
28
January 3, 2020 - 2:01 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Blueliner said
I bought Larry Shennum’s entire inventory to help him out. I’ve sold all his guns, gear and reloading equipment.

Use eBay. Best for buying and helps me out. Price knocked down to near cost.

Larry is fighting Parkinson’s and is my friend and neighbor. I’ve got many, many books.

Best Offer price is set at $30 with free shipping.

Your support is appreciated !

Bill Coppock

aka: Blueliner  

Bill,

Can you provide a link to your ebay sight where you are selling his books?

Thanks,

Al

Avatar
TXGunNut
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 6403
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
29
January 3, 2020 - 5:49 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Thanks, Bert. Was hoping you’d clarify things a bit. I have some of Schwing’s books but did not realize he and the other authors you mentioned were not using Madis’ DOM data. I had heard that Houze was aware of the PRB and he certainly had access but I haven’t read enough of his books to know. My theory is Madis had a lot of work invested in his DOM tables and didn’t feel the need to seek other data. I suspect Madis believed he was publishing the most accurate data available at the time. In a book as detailed as Madis’ it’s easy to find a few errors, virtually impossible to write a book of that scope without making a few. The DOM thing is a glaring problem in an otherwise excellent book. Warts and all, I believe Madis’ book has a place on any Winchester collector’s reference shelf. 

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Board Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 4623
Currently Online: Bert H.
Guest(s) 160
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
clarence: 7119
TXGunNut: 6403
Chuck: 5805
steve004: 5172
1873man: 4696
deerhunter: 2693
Big Larry: 2547
twobit: 2491
mrcvs: 2192
Maverick: 2029
Newest Members:
Lambeau
Larsmack
usmc1978
Otisman68
Deaf Smith
Texasaggie19
Diego
Bkmkok
Leonardb
Skysquatch82
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 18
Topics: 14703
Posts: 131561

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 2057
Members: 9973
Moderators: 3
Admins: 4
Administrators: Mike Hager, Bert H., JWA, SethJ
Moderators: Rob Kassab, Brad Dunbar, Heather
Navigation