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1894 30 WCF not recorded ser#
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January 24, 2025 - 4:49 pm
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Bert H.

Inquiring about ser# 1225351. W stamped. Has a knurled hammer and a Marble ladder rear sight. Any help would be greatly accepted.

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January 24, 2025 - 11:25 pm
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Hello Joe,

The serial number tells us that it was manufactured in April 1940.  The Marbles rear sight is not factory original.  Instead. it should have a 22-G rear sight.

Which style upper tang marking does it have (see pictures below)

Type 6

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Type 7

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January 24, 2025 - 11:44 pm
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Finally! Someone with the answers. 

The tang stamp is completely covered by the Marble sight. I did not mention it is tang mounted.

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January 24, 2025 - 11:54 pm
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Joe H said
Finally! Someone with the answers. 

The tang stamp is completely covered by the Marble sight. I did not mention it is tang mounted.

  

Winchester did not use or install Marbles tang sights.  They did install Lyman tang sights though.  In your Carbine’s case, the Marbles tang sight is a “no foul” addition as Winchester was still drilling & tapping the upper tangs so that a customer/owner could install a sight if desired.

Bert

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January 25, 2025 - 2:23 pm
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Bert H. said

Joe H said

Finally! Someone with the answers. 

The tang stamp is completely covered by the Marble sight. I did not mention it is tang mounted.

  

Winchester did not use or install Marbles tang sights.  They did install Lyman tang sights though.  In your Carbine’s case, the Marbles tang sight is a “no foul” addition as Winchester was still drilling & tapping the upper tangs so that a customer/owner could install a sight if desired.

Bert

  

Hi Bert

 

Do you mean that Winchester did not use or install Marble tang sights across the board, every model, all time?  Thanks   

Regards

Brad Dunbar

http://1895book.com/

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January 25, 2025 - 4:25 pm
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Brad Dunbar said

Bert H. said

Joe H said

Finally! Someone with the answers. 

The tang stamp is completely covered by the Marble sight. I did not mention it is tang mounted.

 

Winchester did not use or install Marbles tang sights.  They did install Lyman tang sights though.  In your Carbine’s case, the Marbles tang sight is a “no foul” addition as Winchester was still drilling & tapping the upper tangs so that a customer/owner could install a sight if desired.

Bert

  

Hi Bert

Do you mean that Winchester did not use or install Marble tang sights across the board, every model, all time?  Thanks   

  

Bert,

I would further ask, are you of the opinion that Winchester Only merely “sold Marbles Sights”? And never installed them?

Sincerely,

Maverick

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January 25, 2025 - 5:27 pm
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Based on my research and observations, Winchester did not use Marbles tang sights when a tang sight was special ordered.  Instead, they used their own tang sights or Lyman tang sights.  That does not mean that they would not have installed a Marbles tang sight if a customer had specifically requested it. 

In my continuing research of the factory ledger records, I have found at least a few thousand instances of Lyman sights listed, but not a single Marbles tang sight.  That fact is clear evidence (at least to me) that Winchester almost exclusively used their own, or Lyman sights.

Bert

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January 25, 2025 - 6:55 pm
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Hi Bert

Yes, I also agree that the Lyman sights are found much more often than Marble in the available records that I’ve seen.

The reason I noticed your comment is that there are Marble Special Base sights in the Model 1895 ledgers.  One instance is shown on page 158 of the Model 1895 book, near the bottom.  I’ve been collecting various items for a miscellaneous sight article and specifically planned to use that instance, also because the front sight is noted as being a Lyman.  I would have to guess that if the Marble Special Base tang sight would be found listed, it would most likely be in the Model 1895 ledgers.

I don’t have the exact dates and patent dates in front of me, but I believe the standard Marble flexible rear tang sights weren’t widely available until the early 1900s, maybe 1905 +/-, based on that company’s advertising and history.

At a quick glance, it looks like the Marble flexible rear sight is not in the regular WRACo catalog until 1910.   If you look at when the factory warehouse ledger info from the CFM Records office ends for the Model 1892 and 1894, for example, I would think there would be very few instances in those ledgers anyway.  A Hopefully that makes sense. 

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Brad Dunbar

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January 25, 2025 - 7:40 pm
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Brad Dunbar said
Hi Bert

Yes, I also agree that the Lyman sights are found much more often than Marble in the available records that I’ve seen.

The reason I noticed your comment is that there are Marble Special Base sights in the Model 1895 ledgers.  One instance is shown on page 158 of the Model 1895 book, near the bottom.  I’ve been collecting various items for a miscellaneous sight article and specifically planned to use that instance, also because the front sight is noted as being a Lyman.  I would have to guess that if the Marble Special Base tang sight would be found listed, it would most likely be in the Model 1895 ledgers.

I don’t have the exact dates and patent dates in front of me, but I believe the standard Marble flexible rear tang sights weren’t widely available until the early 1900s, maybe 1905 +/-, based on that company’s advertising and history.

At a quick glance, it looks like the Marble flexible rear sight is not in the regular WRACo catalog until 1910.   If you look at when the factory warehouse ledger info from the CFM Records office ends for the Model 1892 and 1894, for example, I would think there would be very few instances in those ledgers anyway.  A Hopefully that makes sense. 

It does make sense that the Model 1895 would be an exception to the rule concerning tang sights.  That stated, the overwhelming most common special order sight on the Model 1895 was the Lyman No. 21/38.  Lyman had a 20+ year head start on Marbles in regard to the tang sights that Winchester used on special order.

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January 26, 2025 - 5:33 pm
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What is a standard rear sight on a 1950’s Model 70?

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January 26, 2025 - 6:14 pm
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Chuck said
What is a standard rear sight on a 1950’s Model 70?

  

Chuck,

This is the second post you have made this morning that ended up in the wrong topic… please repost.

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January 26, 2025 - 6:19 pm
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Actually it is not in the wrong topic.  I think some Model 70’s have Marbles sights but I am not smart enough to know for sure.

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January 27, 2025 - 12:27 am
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So I looked in Roger Rule’s book and on page 165 he shows a picture of a Marbles 69 folding leaf sight that was standard on the Model 70’s with the Monte Carlo stock.  In 1954 it was changed to a Lyman 16 B. See page 165.  The Monte Carlo stock came out in 1952.  My 1952 has the Marbles sight on it and I was told it was a replacement.  Not so.

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January 27, 2025 - 12:36 am
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Chuck said
So I looked in Roger Rule’s book and on page 165 he shows a picture of a Marbles 69 folding leaf sight that was standard on the Model 70’s with the Monte Carlo stock.  In 1954 it was changed to a Lyman 16 B. See page 165.  The Monte Carlo stock came out in 1952.  My 1952 has the Marbles sight on it and I was told it was a replacement.  Not so.

  

Chuck,

The OPs question was not about the 1950s production Model 70 rifles.  It was specific to a pre WW II production Model 94 Carbine with a Marbles tang sight.  You have strayed a little too far off of the topic and are in the “apples vs. oranges” category.

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January 27, 2025 - 12:43 am
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Don’t agree.  It strayed off to Marbles and other models long before I did. 

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January 27, 2025 - 12:51 am
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Chuck said
Don’t agree.  It strayed off to Marbles and other models long before I did. 

  

Really… I think you are off your meds today.  The OP’s opening post specifically mentioned the Marbles sight and asked for help.  I informed him that it was not factory original.  How pray tell is that “straying” off the topic?

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January 27, 2025 - 5:24 pm
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I fully understand what the post started out to be.  I did not say you specifically strayed off but the post went into other models with Marbles sights.  So I asked a question about another model with a Marbles sight.  When the experts on the post did not have anything to say I dug out the book and found the answer.

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