I went to Tulsa a couple weeks ago and fell in love with a beautiful 1894 SRC. Serial number 92419. I have looked at hundreds of old Winchesters and the finish on this one fooled me. The finish was a very, very nice Winchester blue with a little honest wear. Beautiful case colors on the hammer and lever. I called Cody and it came back as a 30 WCF. This post isn’t about how dumb I was for not noticing a few thing but about the info and markings I’ve found. After disassembly I found an assembly number(357) on the buttstock, hammer, lever, lower left tang and the forearm. One of the crazy things is that the hammer isn’t the early style widows peak. Under the barrel, which is a 3rd type 38-55 with NO proof mark, it has: 38-55, VP, 3,clover leaf, and a punch dot with a W. There is no date under the barrel. It also has a large "H" on the face of the receiver under the barrel.
So heres my take, it was sent back for refurb and barrel change to 38-55. Why else would it have assembly numbers on everything and have the wrong hammer? Any ideas guys?
Mike,
Just from my observations, not the gospel, all the assembly numbers stamped on internal parts on 1894’s and 1892’s have been two digits with inspector mark (triangle) close by in most cases, or sometimes a symbol (on the under side of the upper tang, or on the bolt). Or, you may find a single letter like "K" or "S", always in capitals, in most cases accompanied by the triangle inspector mark. I have seen the "H" stamped on the receiver face under the forearm on several guns, not out of the ordinary. The markings under the barrel sound normal–there are a number of symbols, letters, or punch marks that are common.
Forearm wood is sometimes stamped with an assembly number but in all cases, except one, they were two digit numbers. The exception was a 32-40 takedown that had a three digit assembly number on the end of the forearm in a larger font (same number as stamped on the buttstock). Half magazine forearms are stamped with "1/2 mag", and I think lightweight forearms are usually stamped with abbreviation for lightweight.
Most cases, if you find an assembly number on the lower tang, it will also be applied on the buttstock wood, sometimes the buttplate, but I have not found that same assembly number on other parts of the gun so far. Ive seen three, four, and five digit numbers on these (all the same number or the last four numbers of the five digit assembly number).
I havent owned a gun that lettered with an R&R, so I cant verify if assembly numbers were applied to various parts repaired/replaced under an R&R order.
As Bert mentioned, it would sure clear things up had it had an R&R listed with the letter. The barrel change, hammer change, and 3 digit assembly number on these select parts bring originality into question.
If you can, post a photo of the various parts with these assembly numbers (also assembly number stamps), and photo of the hammer an lever, to see what youve got and maybe figure this out. The wood could have been upgraded/replaced and the hammer/lever re-cased????
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
1892takedown said
Most cases, if you find an assembly number on the lower tang, it will also be applied on the buttstock wood, sometimes the buttplate, but I have not found that same assembly number on other parts of the gun so far. Ive seen three, four, and five digit numbers on these (all the same number or the last four numbers of the five digit assembly number).
Thread from 2014 but these are the assembly numbers on my 1894 elw DOM 1899.
Rick C
RickC said
Yes you’re correct Chuck. And the forearm is original but I didn’t see any assembly numbers on it. Not sure how often they also stamped the forearms.
Can’t answer that. I always pull the stock off any gun I buy but not the forearm. Unless it is an 85. I don’t know if the forearms were marked? My guess is maybe? It definitely has to match the grade and color of the stock. Now days all the parts are made out of the same piece of wood.
Bert H. said
Henry Mero said
I have never seen a stamped forearm on a ’94, and I’ve seen a lot of ’em
I have seen a few. The stamped marking is found on the end grain underneath the magazine tube channel.
Agree with Bert, they do exist on rifles and carbines but not very common to find.
Below is a forearm for an 1894 (unfortunately dont have the SN range)
Or on 1/2 mag carbines, they will be marked 1/2 MAG, and rarer is with an assembly #
Thought I had a few more examples but it would require a lot of lookin.
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
The museum where I volunteer has twelve Model 1894 and 94 carbines. All have a stamp between the trigger and the frame opening. I assumed these might be sub frame inspector marks. Posts here imply that is incorrect and the stamps are assembly numbers. Three of the carbines made in 1915 have the same stamp, the number “65”. Two other 1915s are stamped “29.” A 1959 is stamped “Y” and a 1961 is stamped “MO.”
These carbines were used by guards at the Wyoming Territorial Prison in Rawlins until that facility closed in the early 1980s. The guns were subsequently donated to the Wyoming State Museum.
If these marks are assembly numbers, why the duplication? I know that other makers used assembly numbers to be sure parts were correctly matched in the manufacturing process.
Thanks for any information or thoughts.
[email protected] said
The museum where I volunteer has twelve Model 1894 and 94 carbines. All have a stamp between the trigger and the frame opening. I assumed these might be sub frame inspector marks. Posts here imply that is incorrect and the stamps are assembly numbers. Three of the carbines made in 1915 have the same stamp, the number “65”. Two other 1915s are stamped “29.” A 1959 is stamped “Y” and a 1961 is stamped “MO.”These carbines were used by guards at the Wyoming Territorial Prison in Rawlins until that facility closed in the early 1980s. The guns were subsequently donated to the Wyoming State Museum.
If these marks are assembly numbers, why the duplication? I know that other makers used assembly numbers to be sure parts were correctly matched in the manufacturing process.
Thanks for any information or thoughts.
The stamped markings you mention are not “assembly numbers”. As you originally assumed, they are inspector stamps. True assembly numbers were never stamped in openly visible locations.
Can you provide a URL to the Museum where you volunteer? I would like to add those Model 1894/94 Carbines to my research survey.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Thank you for the prompt response.
Our searchable database in PastPerfect is found here:
https://wyomuseum.catalogaccess.com/ I think you can search by accession number. For this collection, G-1981.63
I have a spreadsheet with SN, date of manufacture, etc. Can’t access it at the moment but will try to post it later.
Just paid my membership dues today.
[email protected] said
Thank you for the prompt response.Our searchable database in PastPerfect is found here:
https://wyomuseum.catalogaccess.com/ I think you can search by accession number. For this collection, G-1981.63
I have a spreadsheet with SN, date of manufacture, etc. Can’t access it at the moment but will try to post it later.
Just paid my membership dues today.
If you can, please send the Excel spreadsheet to my personal email – [email protected]
Bert – WACA Historian
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
1892takedown said
Bert H. said
Henry Mero said
I have never seen a stamped forearm on a ’94, and I’ve seen a lot of ’em
I have seen a few. The stamped marking is found on the end grain underneath the magazine tube channel.
Agree with Bert, they do exist on rifles and carbines but not very common to find.
Below is a forearm for an 1894 (unfortunately dont have the SN range)
Or on 1/2 mag carbines, they will be marked 1/2 MAG, and rarer is with an assembly #
Thought I had a few more examples but it would require a lot of lookin.
That half mag marking is really cool. I had no idea. I avoid using a screwdriver on my collection with rare exception. I have half mag pieces here – and they may well have that marking. That would be cool to see but I don’t want to do something that I end up wishing I hadn’t
steve004 said
1892takedown said
Bert H. said
Henry Mero said
I have never seen a stamped forearm on a ’94, and I’ve seen a lot of ’em
I have seen a few. The stamped marking is found on the end grain underneath the magazine tube channel.
Agree with Bert, they do exist on rifles and carbines but not very common to find.
Below is a forearm for an 1894 (unfortunately dont have the SN range)
Or on 1/2 mag carbines, they will be marked 1/2 MAG, and rarer is with an assembly #
Thought I had a few more examples but it would require a lot of lookin.
That half mag marking is really cool. I had no idea. I avoid using a screwdriver on my collection with rare exception. I have half mag pieces here – and they may well have that marking. That would be cool to see but I don’t want to do something that I end up wishing I hadn’t
Has anyone ever seen a 2/3 or 3/4 mag marking?
Steve,
Do to the fact that the numbers for the 2/3 and 3/4 mag Carbines are much smaller, I haven’t yet seen one with a 2/3 or 3/4 marking, but that doesn’t mean that don’t exist. I don’t make a regular habit out of taking apart old Winchesters just to go looking for factory markings (except Single Shot rifles that is).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
1 Guest(s)
