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1886 Winchester 50 Express Take Down Value
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January 16, 2022 - 12:49 am
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I am bidding on a 1886 Winchester 50 Express Take Down.  Trying to get a feel for the value. The auction has a 25% premium.

Link below.

Scarce Winchester 1886 Takedown Lever Action Rifle | Online Auctions | Proxibid

Cody research letter below.

What do you think that the value of this rifle is?

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January 16, 2022 - 2:14 am
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It is a “brown” rifle, is “modern” versus antique status, the sling studs are aftermarket, the front sight is wonky, and the rear sight elevator is not original. Personally, I believe it has already reached the upper limit of its value range.

Bert

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January 16, 2022 - 2:28 am
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Bert-

Thanks for the input! Much appreciated!

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January 16, 2022 - 2:53 am
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if you keep posting guns that are   for sale for others opinions on values you will never learn anything that way. all you will learn is what another person’s personal opinion is on value. watch some sales, go to shows, get some books , put some time in. get a good idea of what you like and  feel comfortable in your knowledge then buy.  judging by your last two inquiries I’d say you like the 1886 model.. good luck 

Jeremy Scott.

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January 16, 2022 - 2:59 am
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I would get a copy of “The Red Book of Winchester Values” as well, by Bert Hartman and Larry Shennum.  The values in it are a little on the high side based on current market conditions.  But it’s a good start.  Bert might have a better sense of values in the book vs current market conditions, but I might guess that about 80% of prices listed might be a rough estimate.

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January 16, 2022 - 6:33 pm
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[email protected] said
I am bidding on a 1886 Winchester 50 Express Take Down.  Trying to get a feel for the value. The auction has a 25% premium.

Link below.

Scarce Winchester 1886 Takedown Lever Action Rifle | Online Auctions | Proxibid

Cody research letter below.

What do you think that the value of this rifle is?  

Where is the Cody letter?

Given the condition, this rifle is more of  shooting rifle than a collector rifle.  That said, the auction description specifies, “good bore.”  That can mean a lot of things – the majority of them not good.  Some people have success getting a pitted barrel to shoot.  Generally, this involves using jacketed bullets.  My .45-90 has a, “good” bore and shoots terribly with cast bullets.  A switch to 300 grain .45-70 jacketed bullets did the trick – nicely.  That’s a whole different prospect in a .50 caliber.  

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January 18, 2022 - 2:45 am
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Please see attached Cody Letter below

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January 18, 2022 - 5:03 pm
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It hammered at 12K with 25% juice 

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January 18, 2022 - 6:11 pm
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cj57 said
It hammered at 12K with 25% juice   

Well, it was an auction.  Auction prices are often quite something.

Scooter – were you the winner?

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January 18, 2022 - 11:55 pm
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So, hammered at $12,000 plus the 25% internet premium?  That would make it an even $15,000.  Plus sales tax.  Plus potentially transfer fee, shipping… we’re well over $16,000? I would speculate that’s three times what anyone here would pay for it.  I could be wrong.

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January 19, 2022 - 3:14 am
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steve004 said
So, hammered at $12,000 plus the 25% internet premium?  That would make it an even $15,000.  Plus sales tax.  Plus potentially transfer fee, shipping… we’re well over $16,000? I would speculate that’s three times what anyone here would pay for it.  I could be wrong.  

I looked at that gun at a show last month, the auction co. had a few tables. I thought it was worth 5-7K, I think the photos are better then actual gun as it appeared to have some corrosion, wasn’t able to see bore.

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January 19, 2022 - 4:24 am
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All – Thanks for your input.  My threshold of pain was $ 4,000.00 plus the buyers premium.  Between everyone’s input here, the blue book, and a little online research, I had to set a limit. I have the Redbook on order and it is supposed to arrive later this month.

Onward and upward to the next one!

Thanks again everyone!

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January 19, 2022 - 5:16 pm
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[email protected] said
All – Thanks for your input.  My threshold of pain was $ 4,000.00 plus the buyers premium.  Between everyone’s input here, the blue book, and a little online research, I had to set a limit. I have the Redbook on order and it is supposed to arrive later this month.

Onward and upward to the next one!

Thanks again everyone!  

There’s a lot of fish in the sea.  However, if for example, you have your heart set on a Model 1886 in .50 caliber and a take-down version, and not have any refinishing done to the wood or metal, you’ll be hard pressed to find one in your price range.  This rifle didn’t have great condition but other than the added swivels and sight changes, it was original and lettered. To find one in nice condition you’ll have to pay $30k plus. 

I think the general thought of around $5k in value was on the mark, but bidders are going to do what bidders are going to do.

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January 19, 2022 - 6:30 pm
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I really don’t think you’re going to find a 50 Cal 86 for under 5-7 K.  12 K was too much for this gun.

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January 19, 2022 - 7:29 pm
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Chuck said
I really don’t think you’re going to find a 50 Cal 86 for under 5-7 K.  12 K was too much for this gun.  

Personally, I would have no interest in this gun because I am a condition guy and the rarity of the 50 caliber is not enough to offset the condition – for me. However, the buyer only paid too much if you can find one as good or better for less money – good luck and be prepared for guns that have been messed with. My old friend Tommy Rholes used to tell me “everybody wants nice guns, nobody wants to pay for them”. Look at 86’s in 50 caliber and see what is available. I found two on Guns International – One is at Clarence’s favorite dealer, Collectors Firearms – it is a decent example but has British proofs which I don’t like – priced at $24,500. The other gun, for sale by Littlewolf, is very rough and priced at $15,000. So, what everyone seems to think is a crazy price is because of the caliber. A few years back when I decided to drastically scale back my collection and only keep one Model 1886, I chose to keep a deluxe 45-90, case hardened with a matted barrel. At the time I had a beautiful deluxe 50-100-450 which I had owned for 40 years. I sold it at the Colorado Guns Collectors show in Denver and the $30k for a good one mentioned in this thread would not even come close to what I got out of it. It is the caliber and as the condition increases so will the demand and the price.

864590-2.JPGImage Enlarger86matltr.JPGImage Enlarger

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January 19, 2022 - 7:42 pm
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Burt, I surely can’t argue with you.  The cost of any 50 cal 86 that I have had any interest in has been more than what I wanted to spend.  The 100-450 is way beyond my limits.  I’m sure I will see some in Vegas tomorrow though.

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January 19, 2022 - 8:11 pm
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Burt Humphrey said

Personally, I would have no interest in this gun because I am a condition guy and the rarity of the 50 caliber is not enough to offset the condition – for me. However, the buyer only paid too much if you can find one as good or better for less money – good luck and be prepared for guns that have been messed with. My old friend Tommy Rholes used to tell me “everybody wants nice guns, nobody wants to pay for them”. Look at 86’s in 50 caliber and see what is available. I found two on Guns International – One is at Clarence’s favorite dealer, Collectors Firearms – it is a decent example but has British proofs which I don’t like – priced at $24,500. The other gun, for sale by Littlewolf, is very rough and priced at $15,000. So, what everyone seems to think is a crazy price is because of the caliber. A few years back when I decided to drastically scale back my collection and only keep one Model 1886, I chose to keep a deluxe 45-90, case hardened with a matted barrel. At the time I had a beautiful deluxe 50-100-450 which I had owned for 40 years. I sold it at the Colorado Guns Collectors show in Denver and the $30k for a good one mentioned in this thread would not even come close to what I got out of it. It is the caliber and as the condition increases so will the demand and the price.

864590-2.JPGImage Enlarger86matltr.JPGImage Enlarger  

Burt – you have owned man of the top of the heap Winchesters out there.  To say I am envious would be a ridiculous understatement.  That .50-100-450 you owned would have been a dream rifle for me.  And the .45-90 you kept is a magnificent one of a kind piece.  

On the topic of prices, I think it is important to remember that a lot of rifles are purchased from sources other than the internet.  The internet is full of high prices – especially from dealers who mark items way up and then there they sit for sometimes years at a time.  I think much of the time, the prices listed for these rifles should not be used as a pricing guide.  It’s my rough observation that the collectors who hang around here do not use the internet as the primary way to add to their collection.  Rather,  guns shows and through other collectors seem a more method.  Similarly, the hammer prices at auctions houses are often difficult to dissect given factors such as ego, buyers with more money than brains, shill bidders, not having a hands-on inspection of the piece and so on.

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January 19, 2022 - 8:34 pm
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steve004 said

Burt – you have owned man of the top of the heap Winchesters out there.  To say I am envious would be a ridiculous understatement.  That .50-100-450 you owned would have been a dream rifle for me.  And the .45-90 you kept is a magnificent one of a kind piece.  

On the topic of prices, I think it is important to remember that a lot of rifles are purchased from sources other than the internet.  The internet is full of high prices – especially from dealers who mark items way up and then there they sit for sometimes years at a time.  I think much of the time, the prices listed for these rifles should not be used as a pricing guide.  It’s my rough observation that the collectors who hang around here do not use the internet as the primary way to add to their collection.  Rather,  guns shows and through other collectors seem a more method.  Similarly, the hammer prices at auctions houses are often difficult to dissect given factors such as ego, buyers with more money than brains, shill bidders, not having a hands-on inspection of the piece and so on.  

Steve – I am hopeful Chuck will report back to us here on the Forum after he returns from the Vegas show to let us know about the current price and availability of 50 caliber 86’s. I am not an active participant in the Winchester lever collection community anymore but I am confident the Model 86 50’s are scarce and expensive. The good stuff is often under the table and it is always expensive. Also, the re-done guns are more prevalent than they used to be and the fakers almost always do their best work on the rare guns like a 50 caliber Model 86. The 50 caliber guns have always been hard to find and expensive, driven by availability and demand. The same situation exists with 50 caliber Model 1876’s. When I downsized I was smart enough to keep one!

76del-1.JPGImage Enlarger76delcal.JPGImage Enlarger76delrec-1.JPGImage Enlarger

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January 19, 2022 - 9:39 pm
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Burt,

As usual, you post pictures of some beautiful guns. I enjoy seeing them. Condition is important to me as well, but like many collectors, I have Cadillac taste on a Volkswagen budget. 

Al

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January 19, 2022 - 11:36 pm
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Burt Humphrey said

Steve – I am hopeful Chuck will report back to us here on the Forum after he returns from the Vegas show to let us know about the current price and availability of 50 caliber 86’s. I am not an active participant in the Winchester lever collection community anymore but I am confident the Model 86 50’s are scarce and expensive. The good stuff is often under the table and it is always expensive. Also, the re-done guns are more prevalent than they used to be and the fakers almost always do their best work on the rare guns like a 50 caliber Model 86. The 50 caliber guns have always been hard to find and expensive, driven by availability and demand. The same situation exists with 50 caliber Model 1876’s. When I downsized I was smart enough to keep one!

76del-1.JPGImage Enlarger76delcal.JPGImage Enlarger76delrec-1.JPGImage Enlarger  

Burt – that’s a beautiful ’76 for sure.  I do want to comment that the Model 86 .50 Ex. that started this thread was very weak on condition.  Yes, .50 Expresses are far from the majority out there but they are not, “rare”.  Therefore, if most of us were in the market for one, we would hold out for better condition.  Yes, we would have to pay more, but for most of us, condition justifies the expense.  My own thirst can be quenched by something far short of minty, but the condition of the Alderfer’s rifle falls short for me.  I would accept that same condition for something that was rare.  For example, I would be thrilled to find a Model 86 SRC in .33 WCF. If it were in the same condition as this .50 Ex, I would still be fairly thrilled.  

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