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I am looking at an 1886 Deluxe rifle that appears to be original. Barrel marking is 45-70. Form says 40-82. Search form is very detailed, full of specials.
Ledger shows 45-70 made 2 serial numbers before and 4 serial numbers after, but 40-82 in ledger and on barrel. It looks original, and does not appear to have been taken down. No WP’s on barrel or receiver, and no R&R on search form. Received in warehouse 8-23-1895. Serial #106324.
What should I expect on barrel bottom if original, and what if not ?
Bill
I’ve come across many 1886’s that appear to be all original that have had the barrels changed in them. A lot of them have a period correct barrel in them, too. There are a lot of gunsmiths that can change barrels without it being detectable.
Bill,
You have 3 possibilities, first it left the factory as is and is a ledger error, second the barrel was swapped with a original barrel after it left the factory. With the the first two you will not see anything wrong unless the non factory barrel swap was not done by a professional (wrenching marks). The last possibility is if its a non Winchester barrel i.e. made by a restoration outfit so it may not have the normal under barrel marks and may have finish issues or a barrel address that is not correctly copied.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Walter,
I see it now and then but you can’t be 100% sure its a error because of the fact a good gunsmith can swap a barrel without any sign its been done. All it would take is a guy isn’t happy with the 40-82 caliber and a gunsmith swaps it for a 45-70. Its also possible it went back to Winchester but didn’t get recorded. Remember, this is the warehouse ledger.
Bill,
Did you pull the stock and check the tang markings?
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
If a barrel was replaced with another factory original barrel, I would assume markings would be the same. What should be marked on the barrel ?
Ledger error came to mind at first, then possibly I couldn’t pick out a non-factory replacement, then maybe a non-recorded R&R. The only thing that caught my eye was a lightly stamped ” 45 – 70 “.
What will be the key factors on the barrel bottom ?
Bill
It’s not my rifle yet, but pulling stock & forearm are next, and I believe the current owner would be willing. He didn’t know it was incorrect with ledger.
Bill
January 26, 2011
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Ultimately, if you decide to buy the rifle, you will always have a gun that you have to make excuses for. No matter how much you convince yourself of a ledger error, or a factory re-barrel, you will never have paperwork to support the rifle. If you think you may want to resell it someday you are stuck with a rifle that’s a tough sell to any serious collector. ………….. my two cents.
~Gary~
Ledger errors exist, but they are in the < 1% category. Frankly, my money is one a non-factory swapped barrel (for a more common and desirable caliber). Don’t but the rifle!
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Guys,
I hear you all, and all the alerts went up when I saw it , but then the learning curve ( mystery solving ) kicked in ! The gun was bought for $1000 by my friend…..a ” barn find “. The search form showed 40/82, OB, 28″ bbl, checkered stock & pistol grip, shotgun butt, and ” 1/2″ more drop than regular “. I did notice the grip cap screw was either very worn, or a replacement. No scroll on it ( thanks to Gary’s avatar ). Been down that road.
It’s a beautiful shooter for someone, and I hope someone doesn’t pay for what it might be. 
Thanks all for the input and education.
Bill
January 26, 2011
Offline
For $1000, it was probably a pretty darn good deal anyway if it was in nice condition, even with the replacement barrel. Did all the other features match up?
~Gary~
We’re going to disassemble it next week. Will let you know, and hopefully have some pictures.
My friend took just the forearm off, and the magazine tube looks like it’s solid hard old grease or oil. Wouldn’t come off, so he stopped trying. He’s going to wait for me and get it out together with a soak of something.
He does know if something was done, it was before 1920.
Bill
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