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1886 in 45-60
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July 31, 2022 - 11:30 am
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Just saw a listing on GI for an 86 in 45-60. According to Madl book only 1 was made. It is being sold by Grove winchesters. But they don’t list full serial number or post any pictures of it or the top of the barrel at the breech. Interesting if really is a one of a kind!

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July 31, 2022 - 1:02 pm
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Finally got Wards to fix the listing  40-65  Bill

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July 31, 2022 - 3:12 pm
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I’m skeptical.  Not only that this rifle is in .45-60 – it’s likely just a typo on the seller’s part – but I am skeptical there was a M1886 made in .45-60.  I’m not saying it couldn’t happen – and I do believe it is recorded in the factory ledger as such.  I think it is very likely it is an error in the ledger.  For example (according to Al Pirkle’s book) there is also one .38-72 and one .40-72 listed for the M1886.  Oh, and two .22’s and one .22 long.  These last four cartridges I reference our clearly not special order rifles.  

Of interest, there are six .38-55’s for the Model 1886.  Six errors I suppose.  Either they were .38-56’s or they were recording the wrong rifle (e.g. the single-shot model).  I’m very skeptical there are any M1886 .38-55’s out there.  There were also five .45-75’s recorded for the M1886.  This is more feasible but I still believe the overwhelming probability is these are ledger entry errors.  I WOULD LOVE TO BE PROVEN WRONG!

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July 31, 2022 - 3:31 pm
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The Don Grove 1886 is a typo. It is actually a 40-65 and is in the current Ward’s Auction.  Serial number and photo of caliber marking is provided in the Ward’s link.

http://www.thewinchestergrove.com/1886/12xxx.htm

https://www.wardscollectibles.com/viewitem.php?item=4026

Don

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July 31, 2022 - 6:21 pm
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Thought it was strange. Funny Wards still put in it is a 45-60 at the end of description. Would have been easier if the Groves would list the full serial numbers and pics of their guns. 

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July 31, 2022 - 7:10 pm
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The current Winchester Grove listing also has for sale a deluxe 86 in 50-100-450, with a matted barrel – he says it letters – if so, that is a rare gun and not priced like I would expect.

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July 31, 2022 - 8:31 pm
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Burt Humphrey said
The current Winchester Grove listing also has for sale a deluxe 86 in 50-100-450, with a matted barrel – he says it letters – if so, that is a rare gun and not priced like I would expect.

  

I am VERY VERY suspect  of this gun. I held what I am guessing is this same gun in my grubby little hands in March at Amoskeags auction. Cant be 110% sure as Groves will not give me the full serial number, they want to “talk” to me about it. If its the same gun it had a broken butt plate and giant chunk of wood missing from the forward edge of the cheek piece and was well worn at the area of that missing piece.. Don’t believe letter actually says it was returned to be upgraded to 50-100-450 with a matted half round barrel. Simply says returned for an r&r on two occasions. And sold with the juice for only18800. Look it up. .Once again seems like some hanky panky going on. When will these people learn that the stupid computer actually can out run them on this crap?

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July 31, 2022 - 8:59 pm
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I might add the first three digits of the serial number match, Just saying. First thing id ask is, do the numbers on the tang now match the  numbers on the inlet of the stock.  259 xxx rb.

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July 31, 2022 - 9:47 pm
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oldcrankyyankee – go to the Winchester Collector magazines and in the Summer 2012 edition you will find a very detailed and informative article on the 50-100-450. You will find they are rare and most have never seen one. I do not doubt reasons for you to be suspect of the gun. There were only 331 total in 50 caliber and only 10 had a matted barrel. At the beginning of the article there is a photo of a deluxe in 50-100-450 owned by Russ Day that will take your breath away. I once owned a standard grade in 50-100-450 and probably should not have let it go – I sold it to Jim Paul (now deceased) who is a co-author on the article I am referring to you. In my old age I am down to one 86 – it has the coveted matted barrel and letters – only 206 matted barrel 86’s were produced (all calibers).

86matltr.JPGImage Enlargermatt10.JPGImage Enlargermatt9.JPGImage Enlargermatt7.JPGImage Enlargermatt4.JPGImage Enlargermatt11.JPGImage Enlarger

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July 31, 2022 - 10:46 pm
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Mr. Humphery, I too am inclined to collect 1886’s. I have one with matte barrel in 45-90 deluxe with a letter as long as your arm, much like yours you have so graciously shown. To me at this ‘younger age ” I recount some stories of my grand father shooting deer with his 45-70, guess that planted the bug eating at my brain housing group today. I would be humbled to ask if you ever decide to sell this 86 I would love to have a chance to purchase it. For the record I am not some weird deep pockets, just a person that loves 1886’s

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July 31, 2022 - 10:48 pm
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oldcrankyyankee said
Mr. Humphery, I too am inclined to collect 1886’s. I have one with matte barrel in 45-90 deluxe with a letter as long as your arm, much like yours you have so graciously shown. To me at this ‘younger age ” I recount some stories of my grand father shooting deer with his 45-70, guess that planted the bug eating at my brain housing group today. I would be humbled to ask if you ever decide to sell this 86 I would love to have a chance to purchase it. For the record I am not some weird deep pockets, just a person that loves 1886’s

  

Mr. Humphery, I too am inclined to collect 1886’s. I have one with matte barrel in 45-90 deluxe with a letter as long as your arm, much like yours you have so graciously shown. To me at this ‘younger age ” I recount some stories of my grand father shooting deer with his 45-70, guess that planted the bug eating at my brain housing group today. I would be humbled to ask if you ever decide to sell this 86 I would love to have a chance to purchase it. For the record I am not some weird deep pockets, just a person that loves 1886’s, Btw that rear sight is just amazing! cant think of ever seeing another like it!!!!!!

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August 4, 2022 - 4:10 pm
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I had a spectacular 1893 Marlin sporting rifle in .38-55 with the same W.F. Sheard rear site.  These are an awesome piece of workmanship.

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August 4, 2022 - 8:38 pm
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Burt Humphrey said
oldcrankyyankee – go to the Winchester Collector magazines and in the Summer 2012 edition you will find a very detailed and informative article on the 50-100-450. You will find they are rare and most have never seen one. I do not doubt reasons for you to be suspect of the gun. There were only 331 total in 50 caliber and only 10 had a matted barrel. At the beginning of the article there is a photo of a deluxe in 50-100-450 owned by Russ Day that will take your breath away. I once owned a standard grade in 50-100-450 and probably should not have let it go – I sold it to Jim Paul (now deceased) who is a co-author on the article I am referring to you. In my old age I am down to one 86 – it has the coveted matted barrel and letters – only 206 matted barrel 86’s were produced (all calibers).

86matltr.JPGImage Enlargermatt10.JPGImage Enlargermatt9.JPGImage Enlargermatt7.JPGImage Enlargermatt4.JPGImage Enlargermatt11.JPGImage Enlarger

  

I’ve been lucky enough to see about a dozen 50-100-50’s for sale over the years.  However, not lucky enough to own any of them.  I’m trying to think of how many .50-105’s I’ve seen offered for sale.  For sure one, and at the very most, two.  

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August 4, 2022 - 8:40 pm
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win4575 said
I had a spectacular 1893 Marlin sporting rifle in .38-55 with the same W.F. Sheard rear site.  These are an awesome piece of workmanship.

  

Even though this is a Winchester site, I personally feel very lenient when a Marlin is mentioned Laugh

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August 4, 2022 - 8:47 pm
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oldcrankyyankee said
Mr. Humphery, I too am inclined to collect 1886’s. I have one with matte barrel in 45-90 deluxe with a letter as long as your arm, much like yours you have so graciously shown. To me at this ‘younger age “ I recount some stories of my grand father shooting deer with his 45-70, guess that planted the bug eating at my brain housing group today. I would be humbled to ask if you ever decide to sell this 86 I would love to have a chance to purchase it. For the record I am not some weird deep pockets, just a person that loves 1886’s

  

OCY – about identical to my experience except change the chambering from .45-70 to .45-90.  My grandfather had, for many years, used a .45-90 borrowed from a brother.  If I saw the rifle, I was too young to remember.  An uncle told me it had a round barrel and a half magazine.  I wish I knew if it had a rifle or shotgun butt.  There’s no one left to ask.  The stories I recall are from my grandmother.  My grandfather and the rest of the family hunted on my grandfather’s farm so my grandmother would be able to hear all the shooting when she was inside cooking.  I recall her talking about the various shots she would hear throughout the day, but she always knew when my grandfather touched the .45-90 off.  Very fun memories – of a time very long gone.

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August 4, 2022 - 9:55 pm
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steve004 said

Burt Humphrey said

oldcrankyyankee – go to the Winchester Collector magazines and in the Summer 2012 edition you will find a very detailed and informative article on the 50-100-450. You will find they are rare and most have never seen one. I do not doubt reasons for you to be suspect of the gun. There were only 331 total in 50 caliber and only 10 had a matted barrel. At the beginning of the article there is a photo of a deluxe in 50-100-450 owned by Russ Day that will take your breath away. I once owned a standard grade in 50-100-450 and probably should not have let it go – I sold it to Jim Paul (now deceased) who is a co-author on the article I am referring to you. In my old age I am down to one 86 – it has the coveted matted barrel and letters – only 206 matted barrel 86’s were produced (all calibers).

86matltr.JPGImage Enlargermatt10.JPGImage Enlargermatt9.JPGImage Enlargermatt7.JPGImage Enlargermatt4.JPGImage Enlargermatt11.JPGImage Enlarger

  

I’ve been lucky enough to see about a dozen 50-100-50’s for sale over the years.  However, not lucky enough to own any of them.  I’m trying to think of how many .50-105’s I’ve seen offered for sale.  For sure one, and at the very most, two.  

  

Steve – they made 18 of those 50’s in the 105 variant – you need to start keeping your eyes open!50-105.pngImage Enlarger

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August 4, 2022 - 11:41 pm
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Burt Humphrey said

steve004 said

Burt Humphrey said

oldcrankyyankee – go to the Winchester Collector magazines and in the Summer 2012 edition you will find a very detailed and informative article on the 50-100-450. You will find they are rare and most have never seen one. I do not doubt reasons for you to be suspect of the gun. There were only 331 total in 50 caliber and only 10 had a matted barrel. At the beginning of the article there is a photo of a deluxe in 50-100-450 owned by Russ Day that will take your breath away. I once owned a standard grade in 50-100-450 and probably should not have let it go – I sold it to Jim Paul (now deceased) who is a co-author on the article I am referring to you. In my old age I am down to one 86 – it has the coveted matted barrel and letters – only 206 matted barrel 86’s were produced (all calibers).

86matltr.JPGImage Enlargermatt10.JPGImage Enlargermatt9.JPGImage Enlargermatt7.JPGImage Enlargermatt4.JPGImage Enlargermatt11.JPGImage Enlarger

  

I’ve been lucky enough to see about a dozen 50-100-50’s for sale over the years.  However, not lucky enough to own any of them.  I’m trying to think of how many .50-105’s I’ve seen offered for sale.  For sure one, and at the very most, two.  

  

Steve – they made 18 of those 50’s in the 105 variant – you need to start keeping your eyes open!50-105.pngImage Enlarger

  

Bert – interesting.  Have we discussed this rifle here.  What is ringing a bell is that the letter states it as originally shipped as a .50-105 and was returned to the factory for a .50-110 barrel.  From this, I would extrapolate that the .50-105 has a twist of 1 in 54 and the .50-110 has a twist of 1 in 60 inches.  If not for this difference, what reason would there be for the barrel change?

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August 4, 2022 - 11:59 pm
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steve004 said

Burt Humphrey said

steve004 said

Burt Humphrey said

oldcrankyyankee – go to the Winchester Collector magazines and in the Summer 2012 edition you will find a very detailed and informative article on the 50-100-450. You will find they are rare and most have never seen one. I do not doubt reasons for you to be suspect of the gun. There were only 331 total in 50 caliber and only 10 had a matted barrel. At the beginning of the article there is a photo of a deluxe in 50-100-450 owned by Russ Day that will take your breath away. I once owned a standard grade in 50-100-450 and probably should not have let it go – I sold it to Jim Paul (now deceased) who is a co-author on the article I am referring to you. In my old age I am down to one 86 – it has the coveted matted barrel and letters – only 206 matted barrel 86’s were produced (all calibers).

86matltr.JPGImage Enlargermatt10.JPGImage Enlargermatt9.JPGImage Enlargermatt7.JPGImage Enlargermatt4.JPGImage Enlargermatt11.JPGImage Enlarger

  

I’ve been lucky enough to see about a dozen 50-100-50’s for sale over the years.  However, not lucky enough to own any of them.  I’m trying to think of how many .50-105’s I’ve seen offered for sale.  For sure one, and at the very most, two.  

  

Steve – they made 18 of those 50’s in the 105 variant – you need to start keeping your eyes open!50-105.pngImage Enlarger

  

Bert – interesting.  Have we discussed this rifle here.  What is ringing a bell is that the letter states it as originally shipped as a .50-105 and was returned to the factory for a .50-110 barrel.  From this, I would extrapolate that the .50-105 has a twist of 1 in 54 and the .50-110 has a twist of 1 in 60 inches.  If not for this difference, what reason would there be for the barrel change?

  

Steve – I was just noting that only 18 in 50-105 were produced. I have no idea why someone would want to change the caliber from 50-105 to 50-110. I have always been fascinated by any 50 caliber Winchester – certainly not enough of them to go around. I should have kept the one I had many years ago.

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August 5, 2022 - 12:42 am
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Burt –

I appreciate you posting the letter.  It is very interesting to note that the letter stated it was one of 18 .50-105’s made.  I’m trying to recall if that matches up with other references on the matter?  Maybe someone can chime in here.  But to me, the fact that the letter states it as originally shipped as a .50-105 and then returned and changed to a .50-110 is of great intrigue.  I love .50 caliber Winchesters!

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August 5, 2022 - 12:55 am
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Sorry to interject here, I know I am not as seasoned a collector as you both and I can say I have seen exactly 2 big 50’s in real life. I am only mad that i had to pass on the one the winchester grove has listed currently as I believe it was sold at a local auction and I shied away because of the broken stock and the ill fettered letter as far as if it really was a factory conversion. Listed as 45-90, my favorite caliber. Btw Steve 004, I think I’m going to take that 86 in 45-90 with a checkered trigger to VA deer camp this year for some fun! No hunting in the rain with it tho, lol! 

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