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http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=415931074
Thinking I may make a run at this gun I don’t have an 86. But only "If it passes the TEST of you guys?" And all information is always appreciated. I’m 40 I’m no expert just starting a collection assume I know nothing!! 😀
Thanks,
There are two extra holes drilled on the top left side of the receiver for a receiver sight, and a possible extra hole on the upper tang (am I correct here?). Extra holes can significantly reduce the value of the rifle. That being said, I will leave it up to those more knowledgeable to give an estimate as to the fair market value of that rifle given its condition and the extra holes in the receiver.
The holes in the receiver alone are a deal killer for me. I’m surprised that is bid up over $4000.
I’m no expert, but is that a proof mark or stamped letters on the right side of the barrel where the barrel & receiver meet above the forearm ?
I can’t make it out.
It’s an early 1st. Model, the hole in upper tang belongs. I didn’t see any proof mark, besides the extra holes in rec., it looks right too me
O man I over looked the holes for a week now, I saw them just didn’t register as extra. Its a deal breaker for me also! So those colors look correct to most? They seem pretty good if original compared to what I run into.
That’s a lot of finish on that gun, and it looks correct.
I see that going for a lot more than $4k even with the extra two holes. The second hole on the top tang is correct for a first model.
Although there seems to be more wear on the wood than I would expect with that much metal finish.
The case colouring looks too good relative to the rest of the gun. E.g. in order for it to be this good, the barrel and stock should be equally, or nearly equally, pristine. They are not. I suspect that the stock has been refinished, and the case colouring has been re-done as well. It also has the extra holes in the receiver, as discussed. So, an antique Winchester 1886 in .45-70 with these condition issues should not be worth anywhere near where it is at now.
I purchased, within the last year, a Winchester 1886 in .45-70, and it is a deluxe takedown model, with checkering, from 1903. It has a receiver sight that dates to after 1909. My guess is that it was put on the gun in the ‘teens sometime. This gun is in 98% condition. I thought long and hard about it and ultimately determined it was worth $5,000. It came out of the Woody Frey collection. It is infinitely ‘more’ of a gun than the one the OP is considering buying.
Here is how my 1886 letters:
WINCHESTER MODEL 1886
Serial number application date not available
Type: Rifle
Caliber: 45/70
Barrel Type: Round
Barrel Length: 22 inches
Extra Light
Trigger: Plain
Plain, Pistol Grip, Checkered
Winchester High Velocity
Full Magazine
Shotgun Butt Rubber
Received in warehouse on June 11, 1903
Shipped from warehouse on June 12, 1903, Order number 187649
Repair and Return on October 08, 1906, Order number 8982
If you look closely at the "too good" case colored receiver, you will see lots of rust freckles, wear and thinning on the bottom receiver, bottom tang and lever. If that is modern aging on to the case colors, then it is the best I have ever seen. Plus the case pattern itself is smack right on. I also agree it is an odd gun with mismatched wear to various parts.
Second, what are the "ghost" holes (outlines) to the left of the d&t holes for the receiver sight?
CJ
Good catch, I didn’t notice that at first glance.
Those “ghost rings” near the receiver sight screw holes are plugs that were put in, my guess is that sometime in the past some gunsmith miss drilled holes and the holes were plugged.
It would be interesting to see if this rifle has an R&R on it. I recently had one here in the shop, where the R&R stated plug hole in frame and refinish.
The hammer drew my attintion and still baffles me a little. Seems to show little wear and looks a little fresh compaired to the rest of the gun.
The colors are pretty but it is interesting that the plugged holes match the color of the receiver pretty well.
SB said
The colors are pretty but it is interesting that the plugged holes match the color of the receiver pretty well.
I noticed that as well. The receiver appears to have been CC’d after the plugs were installed.
It is possible that the "Ghost Holes" are not plugged holes but are wear rings from sharp edged holes in a peep sight that was mounted or a shim used under a peep sight that caused the impressions. This would account for the matching color of the CC.
I have seen impressions very much like these "Ghost Holes" caused by a sharp edge on a drilled hole in a steel shim used under a Williams peep sight.
Just another option.
At any rate I put my opinion behind this being spendy for what it is.
I think those ghost holes are too perfectly concentric to be plugged holes . If a threaded rod , or screw , was used to plug , usually you can see a bit of variation in the circle as the thread rotated . Mark could be on the right track. A shim punch thru a shim would leave a consistant sharp edge around the hole like that , and why would someone have to plug the first holes and move them over that little bit ? Also it looks to me that the rings are on top of the CC and have bitten thru it
nanzca said
What type of rear receiver sight would have been on that gun? Thanks,
None. Receiver mounted peep sights did not exist when that rifle was made.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
The "ghost holes" could also simply be scribe marks where the receiver sight was held in place and an scribe used to mark where to drill the mounting holes. That would explain the case coloring over them and the fact they are round and don’t look plugged.
Just a guess though. Extra holes kill it for me too (as does the fact it is centerfire) 
Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
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