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1885 winchester single set trigger
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February 26, 2021 - 8:20 pm
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I have an 1885 Winchester single shot with a single set trigger (which does not letter). In talking with a friend I mentioned the initials CH on the lower tang. He said that was probably Clarence Hill of Dixon Illinois who installed single set triggers and also would  install a bushing around the firing pin which mine doesn’t have. My friend knew Mr. Hill personally and said he was well known. Has anybody out there heard of Mr. Hill or his work? Don

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February 26, 2021 - 10:38 pm
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Don,

I have doubts that the “CH” marked on the lower tang has anything to do with a “Clarence Hill”.  In answer to your question, I have never heard that name until your post.

A bushing was installed in the breech block when converting the rifle from a black powder to a smokeless powder firing pin, and it had nothing to do with the set trigger.

What is the S/N on your Single Shot?  Can you post pictures of the trigger assembly?

Bert

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February 26, 2021 - 11:49 pm
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Don,  Ask the same question here:  https://www.assra.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl

If the man did such work on a regular basis, someone will have heard of him.

Can tell you all about Ben Rice, who also made Win set-triggers; nothing good, however.

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February 26, 2021 - 11:58 pm
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Bert,

 My friend said Mr. Hill died 50 or 60 years ago so probably not many survivors who knew him. I realize the bushing has nothing to do with the set trigger. The tang has winchester assembly no. which matches the butt stock assembly no. Close to the end of the tang appears CH in very different style letters. Also, I sent you info on this gun several months ago. Serial No. 97274, if you still need info let me know. Don

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February 27, 2021 - 3:33 am
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I would venture to guess that the “CH” you mention stamped on the lower tang is likely a “CF”.   Just a guess, pictures would help.  Similar to the ones in the pics below??

DSC09866.JPGImage Enlarger12-3-2011-002.JPGImage EnlargerDSC00405.JPGImage Enlarger10-20-2009-050.JPGImage Enlarger

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February 27, 2021 - 6:17 am
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[email protected] said
Bert,

 My friend said Mr. Hill died 50 or 60 years ago so probably not many survivors who knew him. I realize the bushing has nothing to do with the set trigger. The tang has winchester assembly no. which matches the butt stock assembly no. Close to the end of the tang appears CH in very different style letters. Also, I sent you info on this gun several months ago. Serial No. 97274, if you still need info let me know. Don  

Don,

My memory must be slipping a bit, as I do not remember your rifle.  I would like to see a clear picture(s) of all the markings on the tang.  Was the hammer replaced when the set trigger was installed?

 

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February 27, 2021 - 5:52 pm
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After taking it apart again, I find with careful examination, that 1892 takedown is correct. I can just make out the tip of the F. Who was that? Attached are some pictures. Don

 

P1020718.JPGImage EnlargerP1020721-4.JPGImage EnlargerP1020722-2.JPGImage Enlarger

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February 27, 2021 - 6:06 pm
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[email protected] said
After taking it apart again, I find with careful examination, that 1892 takedown is correct. I can just make out the tip of the F. Who was that? Attached are some pictures. Don

 

P1020718.JPGImage EnlargerP1020721-4.JPGImage EnlargerP1020722-2.JPGImage Enlarger  

Don,

I do not believe that it was a “who” type marking.  Instead, it may be a “what” type of marking.

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February 27, 2021 - 6:53 pm
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As Bert said, its not a matter of “who” done it, rather more of a “what does it mean” question. 

That “CF” marking is found on 1873, 1876, 1885, 1886, 1892, 1894 models, likely the 1895 as well.  Not aware of the “CF” marking used outside those models but that doesnt mean it wasnt used elsewhere for all I know.  The marking is most often, but not always, found in conjunction with special order guns having fancy wood, checking, or pistol grip, or other special order qualities/configurations.    It has been discussed in the past here on the forum and some have settled on the opinion the “CF” designates custom fitting.  What is interesting about it is the “CF” die used appears to be the same size and font across the model examples Ive seen.  

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February 27, 2021 - 7:41 pm
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1892takedown said
As Bert said, its not a matter of “who” done it, rather more of a “what does it mean” question. 
   

The matter of “who” converted the trigger remains, even though the “CF” marking has nothing to do with it.  Did someone make up not only a name, but a city to go with it?  I wonder if Don took the trouble to follow my suggestion of posting his question on ASSRA.

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February 27, 2021 - 10:17 pm
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The CF for custom fittings seems to apply to this rifle. Along with the winchester letter are features of this rifle.

low wall thick side

28″ tapered octagon no. 1 barrel

single set trigger

pistol grip checked stock and forearm

rubber capped pistol grip

jack sight front

Lyman folding leaf rear sight (for use with peep sight- Madis book)

non grooved receiver

assembly no. 19371on lower tang and stock butt (used on custom fitted guns-Madis)

nickel plated cresent  butt and receiver

 

With these features could Winchester miss the set trigger? DonP1020726.JPGImage Enlarger

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February 27, 2021 - 10:29 pm
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Don,

It is certainly possible that Winchester missed entering it in the ledger records as a “Set” trigger.  That stated, is the hammer slotted for the set trigger fly?

The term “thick-side” is incorrect for your low-wall.  More correctly, it is a “flat-side” frame, and it was the thinnest (and lightest) of the three different low-wall receiver frames that Winchester made.  I refer to your rifle’s receiver frame as a “2nd variation” low-wall.  Winchester did not (to the best of my knowledge) officially differentiate them.  That stated, you cannot interchange many of the parts between a 1st and a 2nd variation low-wall.

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February 27, 2021 - 11:49 pm
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Bert H. said
Don,

It is certainly possible that Winchester missed entering it in the ledger records as a “Set” trigger.  That stated, is the hammer slotted for the set trigger fly?

Bert  

Thats what I was thinking regarding the letter as well.  And what about the set trigger makes you think it was an alteration of a standard trigger–the only thing I see in the photos of the lower tang is the set trigger adjustment screw looks different from other model set trigger adjustment screws (not ever having really looked at an 1885 SST assembly for comparison to know if they are different). 

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February 28, 2021 - 12:32 am
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I have disassembled the entire rifle and have removed the fly examined it and replaced it. The set trigger works great. The breech block assembly is stamped 22 as is the bottom of the barrel. I had contacted you (Bert) previously regarding the small no. 16 on the bottom front of the receiver. Regarding the omission of the set trigger, I being a typical human, am subject to error. The  screw is very small and could be easily missed.I really believe the CF is a designation for custom fittings. I really appreciate the discussion on this and look forward to more. By the way Bert you may not remember this rifle because I just recently learned how to almost send pictures. Don

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February 28, 2021 - 12:34 am
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1892takedown said

the only thing I see in the photos of the lower tang is the set trigger adjustment screw looks different from other model set trigger adjustment screws (not ever having really looked at an 1885 SST assembly for comparison to know if they are different).   

Yes–the head on this one is larger than the factory screw, though it’s possible the factory screw was replaced.  As for slotting the hammer, anyone making a replica would have to do that.

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