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Hi all,
I’m a visitor in this forum, and relatively uninitiated with the original appearance and details of Winchester single shots. A couple of days back I encountered a 1885 Low Wall that puzzles me a bit, and I decided to give it a try to ask You guys about barrel markings – or the lack of them in this case.
The rifle is chambered for .25-20 Single Shot. The appearance of the octaconal barrel suggests that this rifle would have been rebarreled; the barrel has a fairly shiny and fresh looking bluing and there are no stamps whatsoever on the barrel itself. The action is not too bad either, but I would say that somehow the condition of the action and the barrel doesn’t match.
Obviously I would assume that the barrel is new, but the only thing that bothers me is that why on earth would someone rebarrel a Low Wall for such an obsolete cartridge instead of, for example, a .25-20 WCF.
I reckon it is also possible that there has been severe pitting on the barrel, and the faults (plus the stamps) have been ground or polished away… ? (On the other hand, the octacon edges are not rounded at all, which would suggest against polishing – or that the job has been done properly.)
Unfortunately, I only saw the rifle very shortly a couple of days ago, and I do not have its serial # or other details available right now.
I’ll have the rifle in my hands again in a week or two. So, in the meantime I’ll ask You is the any way to tell, whether the barrel is original (with a cleaning/rebluing job done on the outside) or a completely new one with just an obsolete chamber?
… or, have you ever heard of original Low Wall barrels with totally devoid of stamps/markings?
Regards,
Zack
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Zack,
The lack of any markings on the barrel is a strong clue that it is not factory original. Beyond that, there is not much to say until you can get the serial number.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Thanks Bert! In the meantime I also got registered to your website. You’ve got great information here!
Yes, I think too that the barrel is not original, but since I know so little about these guns I decided to start asking.
Today the current owner kindly dug the gun out from his vault and phoned me the serial number and the barrel length; the serial is 102311, and the barrel is 24″.
As said, I’m only learning, and when doing that I browsed your forum further. Did I get it right that with a serial# it would be possible to receive some records from the Winchester factory ledgers free of charge? If so, is it this ‘Cody Record Office’, whom I should contact?
I also have a Low Wall action in my workshop. Its serial number is 47366. It would be great to learn more about that one too, in case of possible restoration later on.
Regards,
Zack
Zack,
To get a research worksheet from the Cody Firearms Museum records office, you need to be a member. Anyone can purchase a Factory letter, but members get a substantial discount after using their option for a free letter.
As it turns out, a few years ago I completed a 100% survey of the existing Model 1885 ledger records and recorded the caliber for each serial number as it was received and shipped. Serial number 102311 was shipped with a 28″ barrel in the 25-20 S.S. cartridge. More than likely the barrel was cut down (shortened), and then buffed, polished, and refinished.
Serial number 47366 was also a 25-20 S.S.
Of the (91) total different cartridges that Winchester chambered the Model 1885 Single Shot rifle for, the list below shows the production numbers for the top (17) cartridges.
Cartridge/Caliber Qty.
22 Short – 16,449
32 WCF – 12,640
32-40 – 11,174
22 Long – 8,936
22 WCF – 8,145
38-55 – 7,596
25 WCF/25-20 S.S. – 7,555
22 Long R. – 4,125
32 Short (RF) – 3,903
44 WCF – 3,875
32 Long (RF) – 3,263
45-70 – 3,032
38 WCF – 2,789
40-82 WCF – 1,703
40-60 WCF – 1,512
40-70 Sharps ST – 1,428
30 U.S./30 Army – 1,067
45-90 WCF – 945
Total – 100,137
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert
What about 45-60 and 45-75. Not on this actual subject but, I just came across about 120 s/n’s that may have gone to Hawaii, including 6 muskets in 45-75. I will put this together and send it to you. 71638, 71635, 71651, 71896, 71667 & 71634 are the 6 muskets.
Paul
Paul,
45-60 WCF = 193
45-75 WCF = 110
I have all six of the serial numbers you mention, with the five lowest numbers all being in the same work order. That stated, they are all 45-70s versus 45-75.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert,
Thank You so much for the information. I really appreciate your effort!
Even though this rifle is obviously a basic 1885 Low Wall, I’m interested in it for certain reasons. I will get the rifle to my hands in a week or two for a more careful inspection. I will get back to You guys if something comes up with it.
With best regards,
Zack
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