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November 1, 2013
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The rifle shows no modifications that I could make out or am able to identify now..rogertherelic said
If you have a good magnifying glass, you might be able to make out the hairline circle that would be evidence of a chamber replacement, IF that’s what was done to convert it to the WCF cart. That’s not a gunsmithing job often done, but nothing else I can think of explains why it won’t chamber a .25 SS round.
April 15, 2005
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Roger,
I just finished looking through all of my research notes and published documentation to see when Winchester manufactured the first Model 1892 in 25-20. Based on what I can find, it was August 1895. That stated, Michael (2bit) may have better information.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 1, 2013
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Before a customer could order a .25 WCF, he’d have to know it was available, so when was it first advertised? Most new products were advertised in one of the popular shooting pubs, such as (in the 1890s) Shooting & Fishing. Anybody here have the Broadfoot reprint? For yrs I wished I could afford to buy it, but at this point I’m glad I did not.
January 27, 1992
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In today’s world with people changing their gender, they are referred to as “Trans”. Perhaps this rifle is just an early “Trans Rifle”! 
One never knows! RDB
July 17, 2012
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clarence said
Most new products were advertised in one of the popular shooting pubs, such as (in the 1890s) Shooting & Fishing. Anybody here have the Broadfoot reprint?
Here is a nice set for not a bad price, it is still not too late!
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
November 1, 2013
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JWA said Here is a nice set for not a bad price, it is still not too late!
Not a bad price, but for one having hundreds of similar millstones around his neck, it IS too late.
January 28, 2016
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Can somebody post a picture of the 25-20 repeater cartridge with the 25-20 Marlin headstamp?
March 14, 2022
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clarence said
I KNOW for a fact the .25-20 Single Shot was marked as such. It might have been abbreviated S.S. or not. But it definitely was .25-20 Single Shot.mrcvs said
If marked that way, it was mfgd. AFTER Win introduced their .25-20 Repeater cartridge for the M 1892, because those mfgd. before then were marked .25 WCF. Win was caught in a trap of their own making by falsely claiming as their own (which “WCF” implies) a cartridge first chambered for the M 1882 Maynard, & designed by an independent cartridge experimenter (F.J. Rabbeth), what would later be called a “wildcat cartridge,” like the .22-250. So when the Repeater cartridge was born, the company was caught with their corporate pants down, & HAD to change markings for their SSs chambered for the original Rabbeth .25-20.
Don’t have a Marlin cartridge head stamp but found this in the cartridge forum. UMC side by side .25-20 SS(Single Shot) and .25-20 WCF, developed in 1895. Same head stamp. Not sure what year these were made but would appear smokeless looking at the primers and jacketed bullets.
Rick C
December 21, 2006
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Winchester 25-20 single shot, not real common any more 
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
March 14, 2022
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Bert H. said
Yes, the Winchester Single Shot was factory chambered for the 25-20 WCF (repeater) cartridge, but not very many of them. The vast majority were chambered for the 25-20 Single Shot cartridge. The 25-20 Single Shot was introduced in 1890, and it was originally marked “25 W.C.F.” on the barrels. When Winchester eventually introduced the 25-20 W.C.F. (repeater) cartridge for the Model 1892 (in the year 1895), Winchester changed the caliber marking for the 25-20 Single Shot to “25-20 S.S.” and added the “25-20 W.C.F.” marking for the repeater cartridge. The “25 W.C.F.” marking was discontinued late in the year 1895.
If you encounter a Single Shot rifle with a “25 W.C.F.” caliber marking, it left the factory chambered for the 25-20 S.S. cartridge. Due to the confusion that was created by having two cartridges with nearly identical names, a fair number of original 25-20 S.S. chambered rifles have had their chambers reamed after the fact to the larger diameter (but shorter) 25-20 WCF cartridge, and then (usually) a hack job to the extractor to make it functional with the larger rim diameter of the 25-20 WCF repeater cartridge.
In my article (published in the Winter 2021 WACA Collector magazine), I briefly discussed this same topic. In my survey of the Single Shot, the 25-20 S.S. was the vastly more common cartridge as compared to the 25-20 W.C.F. cartridge… 7,585 versus just 58.
Bert
Bert, do you know if there were any model 1885’s still produced in 25-20 SS with barrels already manufactured in the SS caliber, after 1895 when the 25-20 WCF came out.
My Winchester 1899 catalog doesn’t even list 25-20 WCF chambering for model 1885, only 25-20 Single Shot. There is a difference in the cartridge head stamp in this catalog, but not always correct as we’ve learned.
Rick C
April 15, 2005
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Rick,
Winchester continued to manufacture Single Shot rifles chambered for the 25-20 S.S. until the end of production in March 1918. Based on my survey results, Winchester manufactured at least (7,585) rifles chambered for the Single Shot cartridge (marked “25 W.C.F.” or “25-20 S.S.”). There are just (58) rifles that are confirmed to be chambered for the 25-20 W.C.F. (repeater) cartridge, all of them after August 1895. The 25-20 S.S. cartridge remained the standard (and much more popular) .25 caliber center fire cartridge for the Single Shot rifles until the bitter end of the production run.
The factory WRACo cartridges were marked “25-20” for the Single shot, or “25-20 W.C.F.” for the repeater as shown in the catalogs. The 25-20 W.C.F. was never a “standard” cartridge for the Single Shot rifles.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
March 14, 2022
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Well that answers any questions I have. I can imagine there’s been a fair amount of confusion over the years and, without this forum and your article, I might’ve repeated the same. I imagine more than a few bought a model 1885 at some point in 25-20 and then find out they don’t have the correct ammo and it’s an entirely different cartridge.
Thanks for the information Bert.
Rick C
April 15, 2005
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Oddly enough, Winchester experimented with a center fire variant of the Winder Musket, and at least (4) of them were manufactured and chambered for the 25-20 W.C.F. cartridge. Here are two of them.
S/N 117300 (2nd Variation Take Down Winder Musket)
S/N 121609 (3rd Variation Winder Musket)
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
May 5, 2022
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I will bet those two are worth a king’s ransom!
April 15, 2005
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Edward Kitner said
I will bet those two are worth a king’s ransom!
I was offered the chance to buy the 2nd variation Winder Musket, but the asking price is way too high. I last had my hands on it at the Cody show in 2024 (and took pictures of it). I have it pictured in my new (soon to be published) Winder Musket article.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
