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Bert,
If you know you have issues with your communication skills then that is your problem, not everyone elses. You chose to call me ignorant when I simply stated an opinion which differed with yours. Then you chose to throw out words like ignorant and uneducated to another forum member. Now you are trying to suggest that these are not insults but your "method of communication"? It is simply rude behavior which has no place on here. It only makes you look ignorant and small minded. Your "way of communicating", oh please. If other people started acting like this you would be threatening to throw them off. Why this forum puts up with this,, from a moderator no less, is beyond me. Hiding behind dictionary definitions is just silly.
Even with only a limited education I already knew the meaning of the word in question. ( Ignorant) there are other words that fall in the same
category.. such as fool, idiot, moron ect. ect. there are many more.
Bert is right about the true meaning of the word ignorant I will give him
that But around my house when I was a child growing up my parent and
my elders must not have looked the word up? That being I was never
brave enough to tell them just how IGNORANT they were on certain matters
Looking back I am still just not certain my Mother or Father would have
done if I would have called either one Ignorant.???? I am sure I would not
have had the chance to tell them to look up the true definition!!!!!
IMHO the WACA and its members and guests are very lucky to have
Pauline around . With the up coming changes to having to be a paying
member to make post’s I think especially now the WACA would try to have
a good relationship with its members as well as new prospects?
The part of this whole deal that bothers me is that Pauline has spent the
biggest part of her life in The Winchester Fire-Arm’s business. It has been
her life as well as her means of living. What I would only give to have been
able to have even been a janitor at the long gone Winchester Factory much
less have Pauline’s talent. I also wonder just how much she has done for
the WACA? Maybe someone could chime in here?
See to me even had Bert used a More tactful word as Uneducated or even
uniformed that still would be such an insult coming fro someone who has
spent their life making their living in other fields and only being able to
research and study the World of Winchester in their spare time as a hobby
I am not a paying member as yet but if Pauline will give me her word that
she will hang around and not bail out I will gladly send my $45.00 and
become a member.
Bert H. said
(1)I agree with your assessment about it being original 100%. That stated, it is not possible to "polish" gold wash without adversely damaging it. The instant you start trying to clean something as thin as the gold wash Winchester used on those old Henry or Model 1866 bronze frame guns, the gold plating instantly starts to deteriorate, and it is very easy to spot. In the case of this gun, the gold wash is still in remarkedly good condition, and the pictures on R.I.A. clearly show that.(2)In regards to gold plating, the gold used in electronic circuitry is 18-karat, and it does not turn color or oxidize with time (age).
(3)While I do not know what the purity of the gold wash was that Winchester used, I suspect that it was relatively high. If anyone can definitively say (or prove) what the purity of the gold wash was, please educate me (and everyone else). Again, gold does not require abrasive polishing to clean it… simple hot water and soap will do the trick.
Bert
(1) I would agree that yes a Mechanical means of polishing would remove the gold wash. There are chemical metal cleaners that are non-abrasive that will clean gold tarnish.
(2) If you watch the Youtube video I posted all the way through. The guy explains how the pure gold coin doesn’t tarnish but yet the 22-karat gold eagles and krugerrands do tarnish. Again pure gold will not tarnish but less than pure certainly will, especially when coming in contact with sulfur.
(3) I wouldn’t mind knowing what the purity of the gold used myself. It would help in determining the added value to a gun with such a wash.
tar·nish (tärnsh)
v. tar·nished, tar·nish·ing, tar·nish·es
v.tr.
1. To dull the luster of; discolor, especially by exposure to air or dirt.
2.
a. To detract from or spoil; taint: a tragedy that tarnished our hopes.
b. To cast aspersions on; sully: slander that tarnished the senator’s image.
v.intr.
1. To lose luster; become discolored.
2. To diminish or become tainted.
You can ask any "gold digger" out there that they can find 98% pure gold nuggets 
and other gold items that are tarnished or discolored or lacking luster.
http://metaldetectingforum.com/showthread.php?t=22134
All this aside still think it maybe a simple lighting issue in regards to the apperance of the finish on the gun. I think this auction posting of a 1 of 100 helps explain how easy it is for a of photo showing finish to be misleading. Look towards the bottom of the page where they compare different images regarding the appearance of finish.
http://jamesdjulia.com/auctions/catalog_detail_shots.asp?Details=40939&sale=296&lot=2004
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
quantrez.
Very good post, I wonder how many rifles has Pauline engraved for the WACA raffles, free of charge?
Bert, bottom line is that you were quite insulting, we all saw it, failing to see that and own up to it, then this BS the "dictionary" definition makes you come off as childish and petty.
Apoligise to the pretty lady and lets all get over it.
V/R
Mike Hunter
Personally i think everything went downhill when Pauline responded to Bert,s first post with "Whatever" and then to Bert,s next post to with "Are you kidding me" i wonder if she would have responded that way if the previous posts were made by anyone other than Bert ,I don,t think so .Any time ive used either that word or that phrase i was being condescending and or sarcastic.
Were all ignorant,just on different subjects, and no i dont believe that that word is insulting
It seems to me that the few people on the forum who have a bone to pick with Bert all come chiming in for the kill any time there,s the opportunity.
What ive learned is gold apparently tarnishes and grudges last a long time.
John K
A few people on the forum? You should see all the PMs I received. Thanks to everyone by the way. I tend to treat people the way they treat me. This is not the first time on this forum that I have been spoken to in this manner by Bert. I have done nothing in the past to be addressed this way. This, by the way, is not the only forum that this has happened on. For someone that doesn’t even know me I have a hard time imagining what the problem is. I can only speculate. I have disagreed with others on this forum in the past but it has always been a pleasant and informative discussion. I have learned many things on here. I don’t pretend to be a know it all because nobody is. I was very lucky to have spend the time at Winchester that I did and felt I could contribute here. I don’t have any agenda other than trying to offer info based on first hand knowledge or experience from other Winchester employees. I am not here to be the "expert on everything Winchester". When anyone else on the forum has questioned my postings it has always been done in a friendly manner. Like anyone else who frequents this forum I don’t need to hear belittling, pissant comments from anyone. It demeans this forum which should be an exchange of info and ideas only. If you feel it is OK for Bert to be able to throw out obnoxious comments and no one else is entitled then I guess that says it all.
*winchester1886* said
Personally i think everything went downhill when Pauline responded to Bert,s first post with "Whatever" and then to Bert,s next post to with "Are you kidding me" i wonder if she would have responded that way if the previous posts were made by anyone other than Bert ,I don,t think so .Any time ive used either that word or that phrase i was being condescending and or sarcastic.
Were all ignorant,just on different subjects, and no i dont believe that that word is insulting
It seems to me that the few people on the forum who have a bone to pick with Bert all come chiming in for the kill any time there,s the opportunity.What ive learned is gold apparently tarnishes and grudges last a long time.
John K
John,
Apparently at least you can see who started the downhill trend on this topic. Neither of my first two responses was the least bit insulting or inflamatory. On the other hand, Pauline was both flippant and dismissive with her comment "Gold, brass whatever". In the second post, I once again did not write anything that could remotely be considered derogatory or insulting. It was in my third reply that I used the term "ignorant". In retrospect, that was a mistake on my part due to the tempermant displayed by the person I was replying to.
To everyone involved with this topic, I am truly sorry that it degenerated to the point that did.
To Pauline, you started the downward spiral in your first reply to me. Some people (in PMs and emails) have suggested that I should have taken the high road and ignored your pointed jabs. Unfortunately I did not, nor am I unlikely to do so in the future. I do not tolerate being ridiculed very well by anyone, you included. I also do not believe that there are different standards for you and I on this forum.
To all, please accept my sincere apology for being human and allowing my feelings to influence my written prose.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Mike Hunter said
Bert, bottom line is that you were quite insulting, we all saw it, failing to see that and own up to it, then this BS the "dictionary" definition makes you come off as childish and petty.Apoligise to the pretty lady and lets all get over it.
V/R
Mike Hunter
Mike,
With all due respect, I disagree.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
quantrez said
The part of this whole deal that bothers me is that Pauline has spent the biggest part of her life in The Winchester Fire-Arm’s business. It has been her life as well as her means of living. What I would only give to have been able to have even been a janitor at the long gone Winchester Factory much less have Pauline’s talent. I also wonder just how much she has done for the WACA? Maybe someone could chime in here?See to me even had Bert used a More tactful word as Uneducated or even
uniformed that still would be such an insult coming fro someone who has
spent their life making their living in other fields and only being able to
research and study the World of Winchester in their spare time as a hobby.
So, and just because I did not work for Winchester, you are saying that my 30+ years of collecting and studying Winchester fireams is to be dismissed? That is my interpretation of what you just said.
Just because I do all of my research (several hundred hours per year) in my spare time as a hobby, that is not justification for you or anyone else to simply dismiss it. For what it is worth to you, I have spent at least as many years studying and researching Winchester’s history and production, as Pauline has spent in the business of engraving Winchesters. Pauline and I are very close to the same age. Both she and I have our strong points in regards to the study and expertise of this subject.
In recent years, I have researched and written six articles for the WACA Collector magazine (with several more in the works). I also co-wrote "The RED BOOK of WINCHESTER Values" which is now on its 3rd edition, and we are currently working on the 4th edition. I am also approximately 50% complete with a statistical analysis reference book on the Model 1885, and I have plans for a third book.
Last comment from me… I urge you to become a WACA member, and enjoy the benefits of receiving four issues of the Collector magazine per year, as well as the awesome annual calendar.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert,
Have you looked up "whatever" or "kidding" in the dictionary lately? I see no mention of sarcasm, derogatory or flippant in there. You must have taken my statements and misinterpreted them in your own way. Check in the dictionary next time.
I did look up whatever
2nd definition "indifference to what a person is saying!Who cares!;get a life!
John K
[quote="P.Muerrle"]Gold, brass [color=red:4ed200c815]whatever[/color:4ed200c815].
In the context of how she used the term "whatever" it was in reference to the type of metal, not personal IMHO.
P.Muerrle said
This, by the way, is not the only forum that this has happened on. For someone that doesn’t even know me I have a hard time imagining what the problem is. I can only speculate.
Because you specifically brought this up, I have decided to provide the link to the forum and the specific topic where you and I first had issues. It should be quite apparent to anyone who reads it why you are so quick to go on the offensive whenever I get involved in a topic with you…
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=461668
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Thanks Bert for posting that link. You just proved the point I have been trying to make all along.
P.Muerrle said
Thanks Bert for posting that link. You just proved the point I have been trying to make all along.
You are welcome Pauline. And that point is?
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
What Pauline or should i call you George,that you get your feathers ruffled very easily.
John K
Well I think it is pretty clear. I stated I have documents. You stated that the only verifiable documents are at Cody where you did your research. You also stated in the sticky the others were destroyed in a fire. Well that wasn’t exactly the case was it? You made another attempt to publicly discredit any data I have. Why I have no idea.
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