Avatar
Please consider registering
Guest
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Register Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
1866 Winchester Marking
sp_NewTopic Add Topic
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 181
Member Since:
October 6, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
December 5, 2013 - 9:39 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Hello, I recently purchased an early 1866 rifle, serial 14,103. It is not a flatside but has the early style Henry drop to the top of the frame and is a correct Henry marked barrel. Stock and buttplate numbers match. It also has what appears to be a Chrysanthemum (Japanese empire?) stamped into the frame near the barrel and on the top barrel flat. I was wondering if anyone had ever seen or heard of this type of marking on a Winchester before. I have seen them on Japanese rifles and even some Smith & Wessons. I can email pics to anyone interested. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
Casey

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2017
Member Since:
May 23, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
December 5, 2013 - 10:01 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

I have seen a couple of model 66s with such Japanese markings. Usually there are quite a few markings in several places. I have seen them marked on the receiver, barrel, buttstock, and buttplate. There were quite a few of 66s sold to foreign countries outside the United States.

When I get home this evening I’ll see what I can find at my files at home. Several such guns have been auctioned off over the years.

Sincerely,
Maverick

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 248
Member Since:
December 9, 2007
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
December 5, 2013 - 10:22 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

maverick said
There were quite a few of 66s sold to foreign countries outside the United States.

If I copied this correctly years ago, Madis states that 170,100 model 66 Winchesters were made. The Winchester Book, p.620. He believes “no less than 90,000 models 66 were exported, and the number is probably closer to 75% of prosecution, or approximately 127,000 guns.” The Winchester Handbook, p.15.

Now, even if my interpretation of Madis was accurate and if Madis was accurate, it still stands to be corrected by new information or other experts, of which I am not. If correct though, that doesn’t leave many 66s for U.S consumption (42,525). I wonder how many survive?

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 181
Member Since:
October 6, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
December 5, 2013 - 11:04 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

deerhunter, thanks for the link, saves me the trouble.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2017
Member Since:
May 23, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
December 5, 2013 - 8:37 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

I have a few notes on such Japanese marked guns. Both of which were auctioned by Julias. And then later the Henry was auctioned by Greg Martin. And then I recall some private collector selling the Henry again. I believe that’s the correct order.

Model 1866 serial number 15868 had a rolled up piece of paper in the muzzle allegedly translating the Japanese writing as "Meiji 19 # 2875/5th Dynasty". There were markings on the barrel just in front of the receiver.

Henry 8909 is marked on the right side and top of the receiver and the lower tang. Top of receiver "Favre-Brandt" markings refer to James Favre-Brandt, a 22-year old Swiss citizen that went to Japan as an attaché with the Swiss mission of 1863 that tried to established trade relations with that country. Brass frame with right side stamped with two sets of Japanese characters that translate to the following: "Niigata Prefecture" [a Japanese province or State in West Central Honshu Island]; "Number 2" [armory or rack number]; "Meiji Era Year 17"[1884]. The second set reading: "Niigata Prefecture", "Number 1860", Meiji Era 17 [1886]. Wiley Sword reports that this exact rifle, serial no. 8909, was sold to the Emperor by someone named Paul Barnett. Who knows the real story, Interesting though?

The Henry went for over $30,000, the model 66 went for like $12,000 or so. Both of these guns had many good clear markings. I don’t imagine the 66 on Cabelas being to more valuable than the average 66 as it only has the two small markings. Unless there are some else where not mentioned or shown.

Sincerely,
Maverick

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 628
Currently Online: XLIV, Mark Douglas, Henry Mero, 86Win, .32WCF, caveman3094
Guest(s) 74
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
1873man: 5182
clarence: 4319
TXGunNut: 3903
Chuck: 3523
steve004: 3115
twobit: 2846
Maverick: 2017
JWA: 1828
Big Larry: 1765
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 16
Topics: 10422
Posts: 89845

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1432
Members: 11514
Moderators: 3
Admins: 3
Navigation