Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters




sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_Print sp_TopicIcon
Question For You 1892 Research Guys
August 21, 2018
12:51 am
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 101
Member Since:
February 5, 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

When and how was the takedown feature first advertised for the 1892 by Winchester? Its not in the catalogs that I have.

Cheers

Kirk

August 24, 2018
2:47 am
Avatar
South Texas
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 824
Member Since:
March 20, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I dont have the early catalogs but Waltrus indicates takedowns were first listed in October 1893.  The td rifles first show up in my data at around SN 13,000.  There are a few others that are earlier but have issues regarding originality.  The takedown patent originated with William Mason, Patented 6/6/1893 (No. 498983).  While the patent does not list a Model, from the drawings it was clearly intended for the 1886 and 1892.  TD rifles in 1886 and 1892 came out about the same time from what I gather.  However, I cant tie it to a particular catalog introduction due to limited resources.

DSC_0245-Copy-3.JPG1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member

"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy."

August 24, 2018
4:40 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 738
Member Since:
March 31, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Chris, who is or what is Waltrus?

August 24, 2018
4:50 pm
Avatar
Kingston, WA
Forum Posts: 9254
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

1892takedown said
I dont have the early catalogs but Waltrus indicates takedowns were first listed in October 1893.  The td rifles first show up in my data at around SN 13,000.  There are a few others that are earlier but have issues regarding originality.  The takedown patent originated with William Mason, Patented 6/6/1893 (No. 498983).  While the patent does not list a Model, from the drawings it was clearly intended for the 1886 and 1892.  TD rifles in 1886 and 1892 came out about the same time from what I gather.  However, I cant tie it to a particular catalog introduction due to limited resources.  

Chris,

Based on my notes (very limited on the Model 1892), the first Take Down rifles were in the 13900 range, and received in the warehouse in July 1893.  I sure that Michael has the exact serial number(s) and date. 

The first catalog to list the Take Down feature was April 1894, No. 52.  The June 1893 catalog (No. 51) might have mentioned it, but I will have to look at it again to be sure.

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

August 24, 2018
5:58 pm
Avatar
South Texas
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 824
Member Since:
March 20, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

cwachter, I got the name wrong, its George R. Watrous.  His book is The History of Winchester Firearms 1866-1966

 

Bert,  The earliest TD serial I have is 13448, followed by those in the 13900 SN range.  That said, there is 13453 that is a TD, but was obvious other features about the gun were embellished or altered.  There are three other earlier TD rifles but each of them have problems regarding originality.  The first I have in the 13900 SN range is 13939 which left the warehouse on 6/5/1894 and was shipped on 6/15/1894.  Maybe there are a couple that precede I havent seen yet. Based on what you indicate above, the April 1894 issue (#52) may be the first mention of its availability. 

DSC_0245-Copy-3.JPG1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member

"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy."

August 24, 2018
7:31 pm
Avatar
Kingston, WA
Forum Posts: 9254
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Chris,

Number 13947 entered the warehouse on 7/21/1893. Serial number 13448 is not listed as a TD in the factory records (it was received in the warehouse on 6/20/1893).

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

August 24, 2018
9:46 pm
Avatar
South Texas
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 824
Member Since:
March 20, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Interesting on the #13448.  When it was sold it was a large caliber TD receiver sold through ebay.  I thought  I had some pics of it but cant locate them unless they got purged long ago in some data transfers between computers.   Has to have been about 15 years ago or better when I came across it. Those and some others have a special place in my survey called "Omitted Data" because they are incomplete guns or missing too much data to consider. 

I dont have access to any of the records so makes it difficult to confirm original configurations or dates.  Just got to go off of what I see for now.  Maybe I can get a grant from a special government program to allow spending time in Cody pouring over ledgers Laugh

Thanks,

Chris

DSC_0245-Copy-3.JPG1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member

"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy."

August 25, 2018
4:16 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 738
Member Since:
March 31, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

1892takedown said
cwachter, I got the name wrong, its George R. Watrous.  His book is The History of Winchester Firearms 1866-1966

 

Bert,  The earliest TD serial I have is 13448, followed by those in the 13900 SN range.  That said, there is 13453 that is a TD, but was obvious other features about the gun were embellished or altered.  There are three other earlier TD rifles but each of them have problems regarding originality.  The first I have in the 13900 SN range is 13939 which left the warehouse on 6/5/1894 and was shipped on 6/15/1894.  Maybe there are a couple that precede I havent seen yet. Based on what you indicate above, the April 1894 issue (#52) may be the first mention of its availability.   

I do not have this book in my library.  Is it worth buying?  I like reference books.

August 26, 2018
4:35 am
Avatar
South Texas
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 824
Member Since:
March 20, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

The book is ok, starts out with the evolution of repeating rifles and then goes through all the models.  Really just a brief and condensed overview of each of the models, features, calibers, etc.  There is some good information there.  If you can find a good deal on a copy its always nice to add another book to the collection.    

DSC_0245-Copy-3.JPG1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member

"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy."

August 26, 2018
3:28 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1328
Member Since:
December 31, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

1892takedown said
The book is ok, starts out with the evolution of repeating rifles and then goes through all the models.  Really just a brief and condensed overview of each of the models, features, calibers, etc.  There is some good information there.  If you can find a good deal on a copy its always nice to add another book to the collection.      

Bought my copy in 1966 when I was first collecting Winchesters. I still have it and the outside cover, although the book is getting a little ratty and falling apart. I am sure some of the info in that old book is incorrect, but it is a great starter book. Although in black and white, the pictures are really great. Big Larry

August 26, 2018
4:46 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 738
Member Since:
March 31, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Big Larry said

Bought my copy in 1966 when I was first collecting Winchesters. I still have it and the outside cover, although the book is getting a little ratty and falling apart. I am sure some of the info in that old book is incorrect, but it is a great starter book. Although in black and white, the pictures are really great. Big Larry  

You can get these online for about $20 including shipping.  I will probably buy one.  Most books have some errors.  As time goes by more and more information becomes available.  Sometimes the author just made a mistake.  I always try to buy the latest revision if possible.  I look at several books covering the same topic to see the various opinions. 

August 26, 2018
5:05 pm
Avatar
South Texas
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 824
Member Since:
March 20, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Big Larry.

The old boy who owned my copy and sleeve  was W. Dean Cummings.  Not that I know anything about him, but he must have been a particular kind of a fellow.  He signed his name on the inside cover, and then on the Contents page had a round seal impressed into the paper reading around the lip of the seal "Liibrary of W. Dean Cummings" with the "WDC" initials at the center panel.  Then rubber stamped with his name on the top and bottom margins of the book across the closed pages.  Old school way of keeping track of you books--and maybe a bit obsessive compulsive by today's norms.  The book looks like it was purchased, signed, stamped, and then filed away never to be opened again. 

Would agree too, the book would be a starter book, and does have a lot of general information you can find elsewhere, and probably has some errors like they all do as time passes.  I like the way the information is organized in the bullet point type style when it comes to the general specifications sections for each model.

DSC_0245-Copy-3.JPG1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member

"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy."

Forum Timezone: UTC 0

Most Users Ever Online: 628

Currently Online: spursfan, clarence, TR, Foxdoublegunner
59 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)


Forum Stats:

Groups: 1

Forums: 16

Topics: 6287

Posts: 50261


Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 840

Members: 8453

Moderators: 4

Admins: 3


Top Posters:

1873man: 3899

twobit: 2399

TXGunNut: 2053

Maverick: 1414

Big Larry: 1328

JWA: 1219

Wincacher: 1180

Brad Dunbar: 1043

clarence: 869

Matt74: 836

Navigation